New Indycar for 2012

[Jersey Tom]

...the CG inertia?

I mean yea.. if you had the case of a car with free-rotating front wheels and fixed rubber blocks as "brakes" on the rear... I suppose that might be stable? But that's such an odd example.

Any real 4-wheel vehicle with pneumatic tires... don't care what the weight distribution is... you lock the rears before the front's and you're going for a spin. The fronts can generate a big unbalanced yaw moment, the rears can't do crap. Might even compound the problem having a very rearward CG... front axle is then on a much larger moment arm than the rear.

Add to this the fact that all things being equal, as you move the CG rearward you shift balance to oversteer... and severely split track widths is a big balance shift as well.. not a good recipe for success IMO

[shamikaze]

I think you both are kinda right.

The "Natual stability" would work well when you do not lock the brakes. But as soon as you lock, you're a passenger in a high-speed spinning car waiting for the sudden-stop at the end. Also, I'd think, if you lock the rear's, flat-spots would quickly become much worse because they would ow occur at the powered wheels.

Unfortunately, I would think it would be fairly easy in this situation to lock the rear's. A very descent/fast ABS would be an absolute requirement if you would want this to work. The locked wheel should always be spinning, maybe so that the rotation-speed of the wheel doesn't match the surface-speed (compared to surface 100% lock, but wheel still turning for elimianting flat-spots). This would give you a little bit of extra time/chance to catch the slip before you would crash.

S.

[Jersey Tom]

I still don't think any practical 'natural stability' exists with how the DW crew speak of it.

[Scania]

http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/c ... no237.html

On Wednesday I will post part two of this week's column in which I will discuss a question many people have asked--will the Delta Wing work on road courses and in tight corners? This discussion features renowned F1 and Indy car designer John Barnard plus Firestone's racing boss Al Speyer and top tire engineer Dale Harrigle who designed and developed the Delta Wing's tires. Skeptics will be well-served to read Wednesday's follow-up column.

[Jersey Tom]

Oh, I can't wait.

But for reals... if they think axle longitudinal force is a large contributor to braking instability, I just don't buy it. The residual yaw moment margin from lateral force capacity trumps it IMO.

[piast9]

I think that I understand what they meant. If you assume that you don't lock brakes and that you brake in the straight line it may be true that rear-biased braking gives the "natural stability". It's like it's naturally stable to keep a stick vertical by holding its end than by balancing it on your palm.

Great idea but I think the assumptions aren't relevant to racing...

[ISLAMATRON]

Let's see that deltawing car get around the hairpin @ Long Beach.

[roost89]

could it be that they're trying to lengthen braking distances with this method? I doubt you'd be able to brake in as small a distance with a rear-bias braking system.

Also, will that car lend itself to drivers of other series? I can't imagine an Indy driver being as sought after for an LMP/GT (for argument sake) drive, if they're used to the rear-bias braking of the indy-car. Might take them a fair bit longer to get used to the cars as a front-bias driver.

[donskar]

If indeed the engine is required to deliver 550 bhp on ovals the Delta Wing will go over 300 mph because it's such a hugely efficient machine. -- Ben Bowlby

and 228 at Mid-Ohio?

!?

[Jersey Tom]

Sanctioning body won't let the speeds get that high, I'm fairly certain.

[Scania]

could it be that they're trying to lengthen lengthen braking distances with this method? I doubt you'd be able to brake in as small a distance with a rear-bias braking system.

Also, will that car lend itself to drivers of other series? I can't imagine an Indy driver being as sought after for an LMP/GT (for argument sake) drive, if they're used to the rear-bias braking of the indy-car. Might take them a fair bit longer to get used to the cars as a front-bias driver.

but lighter car can get back the lengthen of braking distances

[xpensive]

If indeed the engine is required to deliver 550 bhp on ovals the Delta Wing will go over 300 mph because it's such a hugely efficient machine. -- Ben Bowlby

and 228 at Mid-Ohio?

!?

300 mph from 550 Hp? That would be a slippery beast indeed, which would mean a Cv times cross section area (m^2) of 0.28. I doubt it.

[rjsa]

This whole story really smells like cold fusion to me.

I might be wrong, but cars had narrow front tracks 100 years ago and some vehicles still have them, but natural selection (I mean roll overs) killed most of them.

[Scania]

http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/c ... no238.html

here it is, how DWcar turn

many theory, however, to said it simply, the weight is the very important key point, if it's not light like this, any thnigs can't done.

[donskar]

http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/c ... no238.html

here it is, how DWcar turn

many theory, however, to said it simply, the weight is the very important key point, if it's not light like this, any thnigs can't done.

I can't help but believe that Bowly's simulations prove that the Delta car can win races. Err, simulated races.

Seriously, I did not read anything in Kirby's piece to support the car's competitive viability. I do HOPE the new Indy car design is a positive change from the current generic look.