Mercedes GP MGP W01

[aral]

747h,

I think that was the agenda of Ross Brawn....

they were thinking of a weight distribution of 51 front 49 rear and somehow hoped through a driver forward cab to counter that rearward move of the CG with lowering fuel loads...

The truth was ,the weight split was considerably more to the rear ,say 45 front 55 rear and suddenly the forward placed fuel tank and the increased crosssection off the driver in a more crumbled seating position were there for nothing .As the big mass of the front overworked the tyres and the weight split being forward robbed them of traction as well.Moving the front tyres forward has limits due to steering rack position and suspension pickuppoints,and of course the drooping nose ,wich is homologated part and any more forward would hamper front aero as the nose would affect flow between the front tyres ..

Much has been made of the "drooping nose" but if you study head-on photos, the W01 nose appears to be just as high as most others. But the paint job seems to make it look more bent and drooping than it actually is.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

747h,

I think that was the agenda of Ross Brawn....

they were thinking of a weight distribution of 51 front 49 rear and somehow hoped through a driver forward cab to counter that rearward move of the CG with lowering fuel loads...

The truth was ,the weight split was considerably more to the rear ,say 45 front 55 rear and suddenly the forward placed fuel tank and the increased crosssection off the driver in a more crumbled seating position were there for nothing .As the big mass of the front overworked the tyres and the weight split being forward robbed them of traction as well.Moving the front tyres forward has limits due to steering rack position and suspension pickuppoints,and of course the drooping nose ,wich is homologated part and any more forward would hamper front aero as the nose would affect flow between the front tyres ..

+1

My thoughts are that Brawn GP as it was in 2009, over compensated for the weights and narrower front tyre when designing this car.
They had an idea of what would happen during a race as the fuel burned off, and had a very aggresive strategy that entailed using the tyres a specific way.

As siskue mentioned on the previous page, the front tyre does not enjoy taking loads. This is evident on the Mercedes more so than any other of the leading teams.

I dont see any team in the pitlane with Mercedes "cab forward" look and nor do I see any concepts Mercedes have implemeted being copied.
The single keel and heavy looking frontal area is a double negative edged sword, becuase its heavy and draggy, and cant be changed.

What they thought would be their trump card has turned into a poison chalice.
Just my view

[pipex]

I remember reading somewhere that they use a special type of Sachs dampers (at least in the rear suspension), and that these never worked for Ferrari.

correct, they use the rotary dampers

never worked is maybe a bit strong a wording for a car/damper that won multiple championships.

Yup, the wording I used was too harsh, sorry. I only got the information from my memory... that was the only thing I remembered.

[747heavy]

it´s o.k. pipex don´t worry - no offence taken

[donskar]

Assuming the MGP W01 does NOT have a miraculous improvement by the end of the season, Haug has set the stage for some personnel changes (from autosport.com):

Should after time not get the job done then you will change people," Haug added. "That's the name of the game for everybody.

[ggajic]

The other day i was thinking that the suboptimal arrangement of the engine in the BGP last year, instead of hindering the performance of the car was actually enhancing it... after all the optimizations in the car, they began to go backwards instead of forwards in other words, maybe they had the same problem last year but the engine change reduced this problem temporarily.

2009 BGP car actually benefited largely by switching engine from Honda to Mercedes (Ilmor) since Mercedes engine is known to be one of most fuel efficient on grid (I don't know if this is true but from 2009. results it appears so). However, note that BGP (or 2009. Mercedes GP) stated to lose edge and advantage they enjoyed so much in first half of 2009. season somewhere from Silverstone race 2009. It seams that at same time someone left team, or lost interest in his job (simply waited for his contract to expire). If Ross let this happen it is mistake that is effecting team very bad and it was poor decision. F1 car is not developed by just one person it is team work and sometimes it is also matter of luck to have enough skilled people able to cooperate well and put things together. I also think that this year car is not just suffering from lets say poor nose design, bad aerodynamics or suspension. All elements are simply put wrong together. Schumacher is suffering with car as much as Rosberg but I suppose that he is just using races to test. This car is much like Ferrari F2005 (and that was first car designed under Aldo Costa, not Rory Byrne). However, it is also worth noticing that somewhere in 2006. Ferrari brought back Tombazis from McLaren back to them - improving performance greatly. So IMHO these are good examples how proper personal can influence car development/behavior on track.

[ggajic]

I think that personal changes will inevitably happen at the end of the year. Germans like things done German so I think Mercedes will ship in their German engineers to build the 2011 car.

Loic Bigois has a lot to answer for the W01. Its barn door aero footprint is a result of his direction. Could this mean the end of Loic and a possible return on the cars for Jorg Zander who would fit in with the "german-ness"?

One of good examples of great German engineering is Audi R15+. Yes, they lost 24h LeMans in 2009. to Peugeot, but won 2010 race 1-2-3 back in style. And major improvement was in aerodynamics area. I am not saying that there are no good engineers all over Europe or in England where most F1 teams are located, but after all Mercedes is German brand and bad F1 results can also influence car sale. I have also read that interest for F1 droped in Germany something like 20-35% from begging of season due to poor Michaels results. So why W01 is so much lacking performance and what is (was)wrong with car we won't know until 2011 season..

[747heavy]

another photo with details of the rear wing

[747heavy]

details from Barcelona race:

[747heavy]

view on chassis cross section/keels

[747heavy]

front brake detail

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Thanks 747

That front splitter is the heaviest in the paddock according to Scarbs, it retains the characteristics of the BGP 001 with forward biased weight distribution, allied to a very compact rear end.

Meaning weight transfer to the rear would be very difficult, and would require tungsten components or parts in places where performance could be hampered(suspension components etc).
And crucially, the aero balance would need to change, more rear wing to balance the weight transfer, which explains the slow straightline speeds of the W01.

[seenathkumar]

Well the front part the v nose that's what excites me...

[mep]

That front splitter is the heaviest in the paddock according to Scarbs, it retains the characteristics of the BGP 001 with forward biased weight distribution, allied to a very compact rear end.

What is so hard in building a new lighter spliter?
Sounds very easy when you can solve your problems with that.

[wesley123]

yes and then you still got to move the weight backwards, wich is the problem.