Ayrton Senna Amazing Last Stand

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maranello55
maranello55
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Joined: 02 Oct 2010, 17:26

Ayrton Senna Amazing Last Stand

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Bump onto this on youtube. This guy claims he got the telemetry data of the final moments (the one got deleted) and tells about Senna efforts in the last 3 seconds of his life.

Personally, unless he can present the info as proof, everything else is moot.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa7QymdWxVA[/youtube]

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Tim.Wright
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Joined: 13 Feb 2009, 06:29

Re: Ayrton Senna Amazing Last Stand

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This guy is a complete nut.

FYI - Part 8 is the funniest

Tim
Not the engineer at Force India

manchild
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Re: Ayrton Senna Amazing Last Stand

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It's worthless of going into details.

This guy "knows" what was happening in some shop in Italy, what material was used, how no one checked what was done in the shop, what Sir FW said, what mechanic who took it thought and hid...

I'm not defending anyone, but this guy made most boring video ever based on nothing. It's not even his opinion, but his private story about whole new series of events that never took place.

What Senna was or was not doing in the final moments is one thing, but what were Williams mechanics doing, and this guy speaks it like he read their minds... I mean, he is using "we don't have pipe" story in order to explain Senna's final actions.

No one ever proved when column broke, and despite regretting Senna's death so much, I still say, that it broke after impact, when the chassis broke too.

There was absolutely no reason for even iron, hardly steel or titanium pipe to broke since there are no forces that would be able to cause snapping while car is driven. Try it yourself, find iron or steel pipe with walls as thin as few mm, cut it in two, connect it with wider pipe, weld it, and than try forcing it with some bar to see how much force you'd need to twist it or bend it.

It was always easier for people to blame Williams than to blame Imola organizers for not doing a thing after 1987 and 1989 crashes, and nothing after Ratzenberger's death. Show had to go on, money had to flow.

I have no proof, but I say, whoever welded Senna's steering had done proper job, since it broke after impact.

He died because he hit wall with no protective barrier. For same reason, Berger's car got in flames in 1989, and if Berger had died, the reason would not be error in tank of chassis manufacture/adjustment, but an impact in concrete wall.

I've spent my childhood and youth in the workshop, even soldered pipe would be strong enough to operate the rack and pinion.

For example - The steel barrel on shotgun isn't welded or directly screwed to steel magazine pipe below, it it attached with a screw, while the connecting element is hard soldered to it on approx less than 1/2 square inch area.

Image

If it can withstand tens or hundreds thousands of shots with instant rapid and stressful forces, than how can anyone think that a welded steering wheel steel pipe could snap from some silly vibrations or turning done by driver's hands?

Try firing that 12/70 magnum and compare the force you'll feel with steering force feedback of any kind. It's simply ridiculous to say that it snapped from vibrations and that Senna wasn't feeling vibrations all the laps driven with it. If he had he'd report vibrations, or even give up from race, parked the car in the garage. He was courageous but not stupid to risk his life in malfunctioning car which his Williams was surely not. It just got airborne due to insufficient design time caused by "you know who's" change of rules for 1994.

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Steven
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Re: Ayrton Senna Amazing Last Stand

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It's utter bs, I just spent too much time looking through 7 parts, and I have failed to find anything new. Things like "at that time, he must have said" are useless. The guy surely has talent to fill time with rambling without saying anything, but that's about it really :D

manchild
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Re: Ayrton Senna Amazing Last Stand

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Tomba wrote:It's utter bs, I just spent too much time looking through 7 parts...
Only 7? I watched whole 12 ](*,)

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Tim.Wright
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Re: Ayrton Senna Amazing Last Stand

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manchild wrote:It's worthless of going into details.
There was absolutely no reason for even iron, hardly steel or titanium pipe to broke since there are no forces that would be able to cause snapping while car is driven. Try it yourself, find iron or steel pipe with walls as thin as few mm, cut it in two, connect it with wider pipe, weld it, and than try forcing it with some bar to see how much force you'd need to twist it or bend it.
welded Senna's steering had done proper job, since it broke after impact.
Weren't you paying attention to the video?? It was a "stretched metal failure". :wink:

Anyway, If someone tried to weld a copper pipe into a steel column I think it would fail pretty quick. In fact Im not all that sure its even possible to weld steel to copper.

Number 9 is also pretty funny.

Tim
Not the engineer at Force India

timbo
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Re: Ayrton Senna Amazing Last Stand

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manchild wrote:
Tomba wrote:It's utter bs, I just spent too much time looking through 7 parts...
Only 7? I watched whole 12 ](*,)
Me too :oops:

And where he got "Senna killed himself" thing he wants to debunk? Was that bs ever talked about?

manchild
manchild
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Re: Ayrton Senna Amazing Last Stand

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Tim.Wright wrote:Anyway, If someone tried to weld a copper pipe into a steel column I think it would fail pretty quick. In fact Im not all that sure its even possible to weld steel to copper.
It is impossible. Copper isn't iron, and it couldn't be welded with equipment for iron-based material welding. It could have been soldered but not welded. BTW, copper has old-gold color and even a pitbabe would say "hay, that is not the material we need".

copper pipe color
Image

steel pipe color

Image

This guy made fun out of mechanic who was (by his own claims) looking for a piece of pipe, including all the people working on the car.

To make his claims even worse, if it was soldered, it would have been strong enough to operate the rack and pinion without snapping from twisting or vibrations.

tomazy
tomazy
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Joined: 10 Jan 2006, 13:01

Re: Ayrton Senna Amazing Last Stand

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A show with difirent conclusion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfIil0oxddo

maranello55
maranello55
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Re: Ayrton Senna Amazing Last Stand

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Another problem i face is all of this as if Senna, for that weekend only, suddenly does not care abt the details of what being put in the car. Hes known to be meticulous about every inch of the car and know it inside out.

For someone to miss something so fundamental and paramount to safety is strange, especially with Senna stature and reputation.

And I doubt that Senna raced half-heartedly and emotionally disturbed. Honestly, u cant drive the car to the limits if ure just that. And Senna drove the nuts off that Williams that day.

@tomazy - Many have brought forward many examples of car bottoming out without such dramatic end.

maranello55
maranello55
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Re: Ayrton Senna Amazing Last Stand

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@manchild - how abt the turning forces? Its not just the vibration but of the cornering load transfered to the columns?

tomazy
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Re: Ayrton Senna Amazing Last Stand

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Well, it is not so much about the bottoming out part, but the fact that the telemetry showed a twisting force beeing apllied on the stearing collum till the impact and so showing that it was in one peace. Well, at lest they say so in the national geographic show.

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siskue2005
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Joined: 11 May 2007, 21:50

Re: Ayrton Senna Amazing Last Stand

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On god, what a dragging melodrama :lol:

I just skipped through parts 1 , 8 and 12

this guys' fake crying is so hilarious :lol:

DaveKillens
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Re: Ayrton Senna Amazing Last Stand

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I couldn't bring myself to watch this self-serving bit of melodrama. I guess if you make outrageous claims and upset enough people you will accomplish your primary objective, to attract attention.

I do wonder how this person managed to come to the conclusion Senna intended to kill himself during the race, when at the start, Senna placed an Austrian flag inside the car in preparation of honoring Ratzenberger.

I have no sympathy or compassion for this person making this video. He obviously has no problem hurting anyone, imagine the distress this is causing the Senna family? No wonder he hides his face, if he ever showed it he would probably be in court defending his libelous statements. I know this kind of person, he's a manure spreader, he throws s--t anywhere hoping some of it would stick to something.
Racing should be decided on the track, not the court room.

manchild
manchild
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Re: Ayrton Senna Amazing Last Stand

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maranello55 wrote:@manchild - how abt the turning forces? Its not just the vibration but of the cornering load transfered to the columns?
It is not 1:1 ratio.

Besides, think of this - he was holding the steering wheel to the left, opposing the forces, so IF it had snapped, than on the video, his hands and the wheel would spin instantly even more counterclockwise since cornering load would be lost instantly while force from his hands would remain applied turning steering wheel to the left.