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Bad Toyota

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Spencifer_Murphy
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Joined: 11 Apr 2004, 23:29
Location: London, England, UK

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Put it this way, which secondary flaps (im talking about the little flaps mounted the to FW endplates) looks like the worst design on the front wings of the following teams:

Renault
BMW Sauber
Williams Coswaorth
Midland F1
Toyata

Quite easily Toyota, their car seems aerodynamically very poor, especially for a team with such a huge budget, such an advanced wind-tunnel and especially considering that a second wind-tunnel is on the way.

I have been very suprised by the aero package on the TF106, and I really believe even Midland have a cleaner package...maybe even Super Aguri. I think that they rely too much on a good engine to make up for their aerodynamic defficiency on the straights.
Silence is golden when you don't know a good answer.
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m3_lover
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Joined: 26 Jan 2006, 07:29
Location: St.Catharines, Ontario, Canada

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Does anybody have any ideas on what is causing them to lose so badly?
Simon: Nils? You can close in now. Nils?
John McClane: [on the guard's phone] Attention! Attention! Nils is dead! I repeat, Nils is dead, ----head. So's his pal, and those four guys from the East German All-Stars, your boys at the bank? They're gonna be a little late.
Simon: [on the phone] John... in the back of the truck you're driving, there's $13 billon dollars worth in gold bullion. I wonder would a deal be out of the question?
John McClane: [on the phone] Yeah, I got a deal for you. Come out from that rock you're hiding under, and I'll drive this truck up your ass.
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vyselegend
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Joined: 20 Feb 2006, 17:05
Location: Paris, France

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DaveKillens wrote: But Toyota sure has got it wrong, their performance was pathetic compared to the time and money spent on that car.
If they really did a bad work with aero, we'll maybe see the midlands in front of them for the next races. That would be very interesting. I can't wait to see sepang.
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manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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m3_lover wrote:Does anybody have any ideas on what is causing them to lose so badly?
Conservative philosophy - basically they are developing what they've stolen from Ferrari several years ago.
16 January 2006

Three former members of the Toyota team have been charged following an investigation into claims that technology was stolen from Ferrari.

The three men are Gustav Brunner, the Japanese team's former chief designer, Rene Hilhorst, former head of aerodynamics, and, sensationally, Ove Andersson, former Toyota vice-chairman and team principal.

The charges have been confirmed by the public prosecution service in Cologne, where the Japanese F1 team is based. The three men have been charged with violating German competition law.

Toyota was quick to distance itself from the situation. A statement issued by the team, which launched its 2006 contender on Saturday, read:
"Toyota Motorsport would like to stress that the charges have not been brought against the company.

"Toyota Motorsport has not been formally notified of the matter and does not have full knowledge of the specific issues. For this reason, Toyota wishes to refrain from further comment, but remains confident that the situation will be resolved with a positive conclusion for those involved."

The prosecutors in Germany will now take their case before a judge who will decide if the case should go to court.
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Spencifer_Murphy
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Joined: 11 Apr 2004, 23:29
Location: London, England, UK

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Just a quick question Manchild...those two pictures of the Ferrari F2003GA & the Toyota TF103...

..are they taken from the same race track???

If so...its interesting to not just how much more wing Toyota are using!!!

If not...then above statement is meaningless :oops: :lol:
Silence is golden when you don't know a good answer.
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Scuderia_Russ
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Joined: 17 Jan 2004, 22:24
Location: Motorsport Valley, England.

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I think the Toyota one is taken from a ever so slightly higher angle too which might add to the look.
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RacingManiac
RacingManiac
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Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 02:29

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what I don't understand is that how can the car look so promising at the end of 05 to be so much worse in 06....its not like Bridgestone is not competitive with michelin(look at Ferrari and Williams...)...
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manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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Those are pictures taken from different angles and on different track I think but they still tell the tale. :wink:
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Tom
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Joined: 13 Jan 2006, 00:24
Location: Bicester

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Different angle, different track, different cars.

The truth is they all look so similar now, but I think those two are different enough to see that they are using another design.

Manchild, can you compare the Ferrari with a Williams or Midlands?

That mught tell us more.
Murphy's 9th Law of Technology:
Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.
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manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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That pic is not mine.

I could compare any cars if I had good pics.
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Scuderia_Russ
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Joined: 17 Jan 2004, 22:24
Location: Motorsport Valley, England.

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Wasn't Gustav Brunner implicated in it too?
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peroa
peroa
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Joined: 30 Jan 2006, 11:14
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia

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The Toyota is probably --- in creating mechanical grip, let alone the aero which really looks kinda Brunners 2002 car with a load of winglets. :roll:

They were never good at tracks like Imola were the suspension is crucial.
They needed quite a few years to extract some potential from Michelin, the change to BS was like suicide.
Easy on the Appletini!
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Scuderia_Russ
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Joined: 17 Jan 2004, 22:24
Location: Motorsport Valley, England.

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To me switching to Bs makes long term sense, and Williams and Toyota might very well be made to look foolish for it this year. We don't know what will happen to McLaren and Renault next year after the opposition has had at least a year to acclimatise to the new rubber.
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m3_lover
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Joined: 26 Jan 2006, 07:29
Location: St.Catharines, Ontario, Canada

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There are rumours that michelin might stay another year to 2008.
Simon: Nils? You can close in now. Nils?
John McClane: [on the guard's phone] Attention! Attention! Nils is dead! I repeat, Nils is dead, ----head. So's his pal, and those four guys from the East German All-Stars, your boys at the bank? They're gonna be a little late.
Simon: [on the phone] John... in the back of the truck you're driving, there's $13 billon dollars worth in gold bullion. I wonder would a deal be out of the question?
John McClane: [on the phone] Yeah, I got a deal for you. Come out from that rock you're hiding under, and I'll drive this truck up your ass.
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zac510
zac510
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Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 12:58

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peroa wrote:The Toyota is probably --- in creating mechanical grip,
Funny you should mention this as while everyone else is bagging out the aero, Gascoyne has explicity mentioned that the car wasn't working its tyres hard enough.
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