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Bad Toyota

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axle
axle
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Joined: 22 Jun 2004, 14:45
Location: Norfolk, UK

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I was unclear too if it was per tyre company or per team...

But anyway there are obviously lots of avenue's of investigation for Toyota...

It does seem though that they are too conservative, they brought their car out early to ensure reliability....to finish 1st first you must finish etc etc...but they've obviously not gone far enough before launching and lets face it with so many other teams finishing the race they've had zero advantage though sticking with reliability.

I'm a Toyota man - I've loved both of my Supra's (MKIV's) I totally respect their car building...but like with their car production their F1 team is too reserved/conservative.
- Axle
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acer
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Joined: 11 Mar 2006, 12:44
Location: Singapore

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Is it suspension or tyre? :roll:
You will never know the feeling of a driver when winning a race. The helmet hides feelings that cannot be understood. - Ayrton Senna
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m3_lover
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Joined: 26 Jan 2006, 07:29
Location: St.Catharines, Ontario, Canada

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I believe it is suspension because Williams and Ferrari were running okay with there bridgestones, they were not putting enough mechincal grip on the tires, they were looking almost brand new which means they were not used to there full effect
Simon: Nils? You can close in now. Nils?
John McClane: [on the guard's phone] Attention! Attention! Nils is dead! I repeat, Nils is dead, ----head. So's his pal, and those four guys from the East German All-Stars, your boys at the bank? They're gonna be a little late.
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marcusdias
marcusdias
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Joined: 25 May 2005, 19:26

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Toyota is getting a new car ready for the monaco gp, to be called TF106B.

I don't know if it's gonna have a whole new aero package, but the main reason it's to incorporate the their latest development concerning the tyres, due their late decision to use Bridgestons for 2006.

Mike Gascoyne words: "If we'd rolled out a new car for January, we still couldn't have incorporated any of the things we'd learned from testing Bridgestones in November," said Gascoyne"

"We can now react and introduce the TF106B bearing in mind all that we've learned from testing"
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joseff
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Joined: 24 Sep 2002, 11:53

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At least they own up to their mistakes, and not just blame Bridgestone. I believe they'll have a genuine challenger in the B. If any team has the resources to develop 2 cars at once it'll be them. Just like McLaren did, they had the 17D, 18X/A, and 19 development going on simultaneously in 2003.

I still can't believe how they manage to get it wrong... I mean, Toyota the automaker and Bridgestone the tire company are very much buddy-buddy.
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f1.redbaron
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Joined: 31 Jul 2005, 23:29

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During today's 2nd practice session, Steve Matchett (Speed TV comentator, former Bennetton mechanic) presented his theory. If I understood him correctly, he believes that their problems are due to Toyota's "zero-keel" solution, where Toyota can make only slight adjusments to the camber. As a result, they can't generate enough heat, which prevents them from being at par with the front runners. Any thoughts on that?

In my not-so-professional opinion, that theory would explain the problems with the TF105B, i.e. the lack of competative pace. True, Ralf did get the podium during the last race, but Narain and that drain hole cover deserve the credit and not the chassis.
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m3_lover
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Joined: 26 Jan 2006, 07:29
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I thought the drain hole cover accident was in China last year?
Simon: Nils? You can close in now. Nils?
John McClane: [on the guard's phone] Attention! Attention! Nils is dead! I repeat, Nils is dead, ----head. So's his pal, and those four guys from the East German All-Stars, your boys at the bank? They're gonna be a little late.
Simon: [on the phone] John... in the back of the truck you're driving, there's $13 billon dollars worth in gold bullion. I wonder would a deal be out of the question?
John McClane: [on the phone] Yeah, I got a deal for you. Come out from that rock you're hiding under, and I'll drive this truck up your ass.
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f1.redbaron
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Joined: 31 Jul 2005, 23:29

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m3_lover wrote:I thought the drain hole cover accident was in China last year?
Yeah...TF105B was in action for the last three races of '05. During those three races, Toyota's biggest success came in a form of a 3rd place finish for Ralf (in China), but when you take the mess that happened during that race into consideration, pretty soon you realize that the 3rd place finish was not due to the car, but rather the "unforeseen factors".
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ginsu
ginsu
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Joined: 17 Jan 2006, 02:23

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f1.redbaron wrote:During today's 2nd practice session, Steve Matchett (Speed TV comentator, former Bennetton mechanic) presented his theory. If I understood him correctly, he believes that their problems are due to Toyota's "zero-keel" solution, where Toyota can make only slight adjusments to the camber. As a result, they can't generate enough heat, which prevents them from being at par with the front runners. Any thoughts on that?
I don't think it's really that simple. If it were just zero-keel, then Honda and Williams would be having problems too. Especially, Williams because they run Bridgestones too. Although, I definitely think zero-keel is part of the problem because the suspension droop makes the camber curve not-so linear. As opposed to control arms that are parallel with the ground. It's not impossible to overcome (e.g. McLaren), but it requires alot more fine tuning, I'm sure.

If it were just zero-keel then wouldn't they be getting massive understeer? I don't know why neither Jarno or Ralf said anything about it.

What really doesn't make sense about the Toyota is how come they didn't know this sooner? Why would the tires have been any different in testing? Gascoyne has had to know about this for awhile they've been off pace since day one.
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f1.redbaron
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Joined: 31 Jul 2005, 23:29

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ginsu wrote: What really doesn't make sense about the Toyota is how come they didn't know this sooner? Why would the tires have been any different in testing? Gascoyne has had to know about this for awhile they've been off pace since day one.
I think that they did know, only they didn't tell us. I don't know if you remember, but throughout the entire winter testing, all Toyota did was "evaluate their new tires". This constant tire evaluation should've given us some clues that something is not right. I mean, Williams switched to Bridgestones as well, and they didn't do nearly as much tire testing as Toyota did (granted, the latter has the funds, but still...).

Interestintly enough, they kept saying how they're happy on Bridgestones.

BTW, Toyota had requested special soft-compound tires for this week's race. Their practice times were OK, but not too spectacular.

EDIT: One more thing. Somebody had suggested that Toyota should've gone to Bahrain for some hot-weather tire testing. I'm beginning to think that Toyota was attributing the lack of heat in their tires to the cold winter weather. They really screwed up.
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m3_lover
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Joined: 26 Jan 2006, 07:29
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Mr Gascoyne is in Germany at the factory until saturday for qualifying, that just tells you that they are in trouble, looking for something when there technical director is nowhere on site during the practice.
Simon: Nils? You can close in now. Nils?
John McClane: [on the guard's phone] Attention! Attention! Nils is dead! I repeat, Nils is dead, ----head. So's his pal, and those four guys from the East German All-Stars, your boys at the bank? They're gonna be a little late.
Simon: [on the phone] John... in the back of the truck you're driving, there's $13 billon dollars worth in gold bullion. I wonder would a deal be out of the question?
John McClane: [on the phone] Yeah, I got a deal for you. Come out from that rock you're hiding under, and I'll drive this truck up your ass.
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Jason
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Joined: 17 Mar 2006, 09:12
Location: KL, Malaysia

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m3_lover wrote:Mr Gascoyne is in Germany at the factory until saturday for qualifying, that just tells you that they are in trouble, looking for something when there technical director is nowhere on site during the practice.
The Mike Gascoyne-designed TF106 is in trouble, mechanical grip problem as said last time. On the out side it is ok but in the inside there problem and is the suspension. The car has'nt been very fast in yesterday's Free Practice 1 and 2 :roll:
Never regret what you do, but only regret what you don't do. - Jenson Button
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taleed
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Joined: 19 Mar 2006, 18:46
Location: Oman/Muscat

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Now you know
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