Toyota TF109

[Giblet]

Very clean looking car without that ridiculous "I threw red paint at this car as it was driving by" paint job.

[Formula None]

Some photos of recent testing with Pirelli tires.

http://speedhunters.com/archive/2010/12 ... tires.aspx

http://negativeffect.com/2010/12/19/for ... r-success/

[ESPImperium]

Looks like they have been using TF109-01 for Pirelli tyre testing in Bahrain. A chassis that doesn't really have too much in terms of milage on it. They seemingly used TF109-03 for Europe.

Chassis 02 is the only TF109 with KERS
Chassis 04 has a good amount of milage on it
Chassis 05 was trashed by Timo Glock at Suzuka in Quali
Chassis 06 has an extreme amount of milage on it as it was used for 15 GP in 2009 and was involved in a couple major accidents as well at Spain and Brazil on the first lap of both.

I think Toyota have found the right chassis for the Pirelli tests.

[marcush.]

which one was used for the crash testing back then? some forum members are very firm after crash testing you can only throw away that tub...

[ESPImperium]

which one was used for the crash testing back then? some forum members are very firm after crash testing you can only throw away that tub...

Toyota threw that one away and didn't get a number. The only teams that give that chassis a number are Williams, Mclaren and Ferrari, but the latte now throw that tub away, Williams are the only team that keep the crash tub in their numbering system, last year it was the No 2 chassis that was used by Williams.

Its easier to throw the crash tub away as it cannot be used as its subjected to forces that bend and warp the tub after so many crash tests. As teams usually throw up to 50 crashes at the chassis from various directions, and in 2012 that figure will see that tub subjected to a floor test and a roll bar test as well.

Cant be too safe now a days i think.

[marcush.]

what sort of process is that?You build a complete tub for homologation purposes NOT numbering it ? I don´t get the idea behind it.For traceability etc and needas to have a number ,even though they might choose then to not assign an official chassis number to it....but where is the sense of this..?

[ESPImperium]

what sort of process is that?You build a complete tub for homologation purposes NOT numbering it ? I don´t get the idea behind it.For traceability etc and needas to have a number ,even though they might choose then to not assign an official chassis number to it....but where is the sense of this..?

If it were given a number he FIA take that as the final build, where if it still has the manufacture number and not a final chassis number, they can still change things on future tubs. Its a loophole in the rules that will be closed in 2013. But in 2013 a chassis design will have to be used over 2 years for cost cutting measures. Think of it as the TF109 design would have to last into 2010 if Toyota were to have made it into 2010 for an example. A design tub limit hasn't been agreed yet, but im thinking 7 tubs over 2 years per team will be a decent figure.

[marcush.]

where is the loophole? I cannot see this.
You have to run exactly what you brought
to the crash test and you need to submit that chassis to the test before even officially testing.so at best you could have done a rollout and straightline testing before crashtesting...no chance to upgrade the tub ...or am i getting something wrong here?

[747heavy]

where is the loophole? I cannot see this.
You have to run exactly what you brought
to the crash test and you need to submit that chassis to the test before even officially testing.so at best you could have done a rollout and straightline testing before crashtesting...no chance to upgrade the tub ...or am i getting something wrong here?

What happen if you fail the crash test?
I´m pretty sure you come back with a modified tub/chassis, otherwise if you homologate the tub before the crash test, you are out for a year.-No?
Therefore I would think, that you homologate after you pass the test, as you have tested, and will probably need to supply the lay-up book /specs etc.

Not sure about the chassis numbers in F1, but things like F 109-#0 and F 109-#00 would be a possibility for this (crash test / mock-up) purpose.
If all is o.k. and the process is agreed on and stable you would start with your full production tub´s/chassis No.´s for race/test purpose.
Similar to "Zero"-series (0-Serie) production runs in OEM.

Just a thought

[marcush.]

jumbo ..thats a line of thought I can follow.But really i do not see a chance to modify a lot when you fail the crash test ...it seems the team cut things very close with crashtests only done when the first string of tubs are already started to produce or even finished....
quite interesting how much modification to layups etc is allowed and how you get a waver for this ..we have heard more than once in recent years that drivers are expecting newer -better(!) chassis after the flyaway races... or even later in the year(Mercedes Gp)..and notably also RedBull had to
repair /write off(?)/retire chassis quite early in the year due to inconsistancies ...

[ESPImperium]

Crash testing is usually done by teams away back in august/september for the next years chassis for existing teams. New teams usually do it in November/December. So they get time that way.

New designs are usually finalised in and arround the time of crash testing, so teams usually go with that solution at that time.

[marcush.]

you need the complete chassis for crash testing ,right?

[ESPImperium]

Complete chassis with all 5 crash structures must be complete, as well as nose cone, the rear crash structure is done on a jig and is exempted in effect.. But you do not need a chassis that is going to be in the chassis numbering chain. Typically 01 is used, but now the teams are only using a manufacture number instead. Look at Ferrari, they use the 'Project xxx' until they pass the crash tests. Then they name the chassis and give it number, which for 2011 will start with 287. The other teams start from 01.

You do not need a chassis number, all you need is a manufacture number and project number.

As i said, in 2013, this loophole is to be closed, with a chassis design to last (be homologated) 2 years for cost cutting possibly in 2013 as well, but is more likely to come into play in 2014 as the number of chassis over a 2 year period is in dispute at the moment. I recon it should be 7 tubs, but some teams would like it to be 9. This is only good if rules stay stable for a period of 5 years tho.

[kenji8]

http://f1news.autoroad.cz/novinky/36758 ... nem-okruhu

[gridwalker]

Ooooh, thanks for that link : I was looking for pics like that ...

I might have to X-Post them over in the testing thread though