Renault R31

[marekk]

I still don´t get just why the mass airflow through the radiator should not go down when you choke of the exit.
In an exageration-close the exit to a 10mm diameter hole and the airmass flow will be practically zero no matter how big your inlets are.the spped will be high no question but the massflow will go towards zero.
Your increase in speed will come at a cost.
A very interesting point is where to dump the hot sidepod exits .the pressure situation in that area will decide ,no?

Of course it will go down, except you find a way to speed it up. No idea if it's the case, but maybe they'll use some sort of ramjet effect. From the top the sidepods look like low-bypass jet engine, tunnels acting as low-bypass for quick air, radiators as heat source and engine cover forming a nozzle.
Ramjets are proved to produce trust, so i see no fundamental reasons for this concept to work. Of course only if you have the numbers you will know if it's worth it.

[madly]

Some earlier photos gamma corrected to see more details in black areas. Some are Blackout photos. I think one could find some more interesting details.


HiRes: http://www.sliwinski.priv.pl/f1/r31_jazrez_01.jpg


HiRes: http://www.sliwinski.priv.pl/f1/r31_jazrez_02.jpg






HiRes: http://www.sliwinski.priv.pl/f1/r31_jazrez_05.jpg

[Blackout]

Another photo showing the rads... the inner shape of the radiator ducts look strange to me...
but no additional ducts between the rads and the tub in sight...

click to enlarge

[raymondu999]

Is the lower plane on the front wing (the one attached to the front wing mounts) kind of "contoured" and "curled" below the inner edges of the front wing planes, or is that a reflection?

[okibcn]

Is the lower plane on the front wing (the one attached to the front wing mounts) kind of "contoured" and "curled" below the inner edges of the front wing planes, or is that a reflection?

It is reflection, you can see the same refletions in the rest of the edges (nose, upper wings...).

Regards

Oki

[volarchico]

Another photo showing the rads... the inner shape of the radiator ducts look strange to me...
but no additional ducts between the rads and the tub insight...

Looks like there is a duct! What's the dark rectangular area between the radiator and the sidepod?

[matt21]

Oh no, definitely not : Fans are forbidden, verboden, interdite, proibito ...

Where is this written? Or are they considered moveable aero devices.
Even if they are 100% for engine cooling?

[manchild]

Another photo showing the rads... the inner shape of the radiator ducts look strange to me...
but no additional ducts between the rads and the tub insight...

Looks like there is a duct! What's the dark rectangular area between the radiator and the sidepod?

There is a duct or a tunnel, call it what you want.

Explained several pages back:

viewtopic.php?p=223890#p223890

[timbo]

Or are they considered moveable aero devices.
Even if they are 100% for engine cooling?

Yep.

[Blackout]

Another photo showing the rads... the inner shape of the radiator ducts look strange to me...
but no additional ducts between the rads and the tub insight...

Looks like there is a duct! What's the dark rectangular area between the radiator and the sidepod?

There is a duct or a tunnel, call it what you want.

Explained several pages back:

viewtopic.php?p=223890#p223890

I've read your theory and I like it, but that's not a tunnel. That's simply the radiator's duct witch has a different colour (unpainted CF), more gray than black...

[AbbaleRacing77]

For the doubters.... Yes the air has a turbulent flow... And yes the radiators have some resistance... I understand your doubts But it doesn't matter because the flow is constantly pressurized and then is forced out a tiny hole. Kinda like a muffler (the muffler in this example would be the radiator Aka your resistance)... Mufflers create resistance and turbulence but the same amount of air still flows out the muffler compared to the same engine with straight pipes. Why? Because it's under constant pressure, I your pressure source is strong enough it will force what goes in, out. Now add a nozzle to the end of the muffler (Aka your small sidepod outlets)... The air is going to flow with much faster velocity out the end of the exhaust ( or the sidepod). Ok so now that we know this would you say that 200mph airstream that enters the sidepod would deflect off the radiators and find it's way out another crevice or back out of the front of the sidepod? Would you say that theres minimal air entering the side pod and that the radiators are just for show? Hell no! And that's the only scenario that wouldn't make this system work.

If we continue with the muffler analogy where is the loss in performance figured in from its restricted flow as is found on any engine. I dont doubt that you can increase the velocity out the back of the sidepods but its the car thats pushing it through, reducing its speed. Is it formulated that the lost speed and acceleration is compensated for with the extra downforce. Thats the concept RBs been winning with so it could be the way to go.

Like I said the radiators are not free flowing and neither is a muffler. Less horsepower is created because of restriction but the same volume of air flows out the exhaust regardless.

[NormalChris]

Like I said the radiators are not free flowing and neither is a muffler. Less horsepower is created because of restriction but the same volume of air flows out the exhaust regardless.

It seems a inefficient way to create DF to me. With the time spent on tweaking L/D ratios on every component and scraping tiny points from everywhere it seems a giant counter intuitive leap to take the most obtrusive part of the car and significantly increase its drag. It's not that the concept wouldn't work per se. Possibly there's something else we just dont understand or see. There's a good chance i'm wrong and I'll look forward to the chance we'll see nozzles and jets sprouting out the cars and squirting air in very specific places.

If it is efficiently blowing the diffuser and the FEE is an effective concept they must have one hell of a front wing.

[AbbaleRacing77]

where do the holes in the splitter lead?

[Remote_Access]

This idea that the engine bay outlets are somehow 'blown' seems a little unrealistic to me. I agree the total airflow in must equal airflow out, but in cases like this a constriction of the outlets will be felt as a restriction through the sidepod, resulting in cooling inefficiency (and yes, air may spill forward out of the intake). Car cooling systems are normally designed to prevent this from happening, I believe. And besides, it's not certain that the cross sectional area of the outlets is less than that of the inlets. Renault's sidepod intakes appear to have shrunk since launch (correct me if I'm wrong), and apart from the two low-lying outlets over the diffuser, there is also a central outlet. These may 'look' small, but the actual cross-sectional areas may be very similar (the purple contouring of the pics above misses the upper outlet, which widens after the purple line point).

Some have suggested the heating from the radiators will expand the air to force it out the back at a higher pressure, kind of like a combustion chamber, but notwithstanding the definite heating of air and a corresponding expansion (0.035% per degree if this source is correct: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/air-p ... d_156.html), I don't think this would create a significant blowing effect.

Perhaps it is more likely that the heat source (outlet) is just being used to warm up the air passing over the diffuser, reducing the effect of the boundary layer and allowing more air to flow over the top and past the beam-wing? As opposed to 'blowing' it per se.

Alternatively there may be something going on with the inner inlet, but this is more likely the standard inner inlet for the electronics, just made a bit bigger by virtue of the proximity to the exhausts.

[hollus]

Some have suggested the heating from the radiators will expand the air to force it out the back at a higher pressure, kind of like a combustion chamber, but notwithstanding the definite heating of air and a corresponding expansion (0.035% per degree if this source is correct: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/air-p ... d_156.html), I don't think this would create a significant blowing effect.

I don't buy this ramming trick, but there might be some of it going on. Possibly, like in last years' Red Bull, there is a bit of a lot of things going on.
But anyway, and to keep the discussion on track, make that expansion more like 0.35% (roughly 1/300 as ambient temp is about 300K). To give a more visual example, it would take heating that air to 327C (from 300K to 600K) to double its volume/pressure.