Doubble clutch

[f1rules]

According to the latest issue of f1racing magazine, the mp4-19 features a doubble clutch system. I know this has been speculated before, but perhaps that could explain some of the overheating issues mclaren still seems to have. I think to have written elswhere that such a system with carbon made gearbox and doubble clutch system would produce an emmense heat.
looking at the pictures it could look like the heat is from the gearbox area, or am i totally of

[joseff]

I think Audi already has a double-clutch transmission in production. I know it's an option on the TT 3.2.

[bernif2003]

Ferrari used a double clutch system in F2002 car, and they haven't any problems with it. It allows a faster gear shift and other imporvements, I think. The gear box must be modified in order to use this system. There are one shaft by the 1,3,5,7 gear, and another by 2,4,6 gear. It allows shifting by using both clutches, and the shifts becames faster.

If I'm not wrong, I rode something like it.

[drspeed]

If I understand correctly, double clutch gearboxes dont have much to do with faster gearchanges. That concerns single clutch systems. Twin clutches work by engaging two gears at the same time. For example, if you are in first gear, second gear would already be engaged so while you rev up, there's a smooth transition between the two gears. While you are in second gear, the gearbox automatically disengages first gear and engages third gear and waits until you need it.

This is how it works when it upshifts, but i dont know how it works when they downshift. Maybe they'll need triple clutches or perhaps speed doesnt matter at all when you downshift. I didnt know Ferraris ran these gearboxes in their F2002. I thought Mclaren would have been the first to introduce it in F1.

Btw, wasnt there rumors that Mclaren was developing a carbonfibre gearbox just after they signed Michael Coughlan from Arrows? I thought this would be a carbon double clutch box.

[Beostar]

Think your right here drspeed.
As you clearly noted speed isn't really necessary when downshifting. The most important this is that the wheels don't start "slipping". That the rear wheels go i think its 103-107% faster than the reference wheel. So that would explain why there is no need to make the downshift faster. I read somewhere that downshift is already controller by the ECU and slowing down the actual shift in combination with many algorithmes to calculate the exact time.

Anyone care to add or trash this statement?

[Guest]

To my best of knowledge ferrari has newer used a doubble clutch system. They had the fastets shifting gearbox but it wasn't a doupple clutch system. Furthermore mclaren already early last year headhunted the designer which was responsible for the development of that gearbox, which was john sutton.

[Guest]

To my best of knowledge ferrari has newer used a doubble clutch system. They had the fastets shifting gearbox but it wasn't a doupple clutch system. Furthermore mclaren already early last year headhunted the designer which was responsible for the development of the f2002 gearbox, which was john sutton. He is know fully responsible of gearbox, and gearbox integreation with backend at mclaren.
And yes mclaren did produce a carbon fibre gearbox to the mp4-18, but according to rumors it was to fragile so they went back to a conventional aluminium casing gearbox. Wheather of this new one is carbon fibre or aluminium i dont know but my guess is that it is made of carbon fibre

[Guest]

Speaking of carbon gearboxes, Arrows used to be the only team using them. Then they should have gone somewhere in last years auction of Arrows parts. Who bought them?

[scarbs]

No recent F1 team has used a double clutch, The rumour mill put out that Ferrari (2002) and then McLaren (2003) were running one. As has been pointe dout the gears a sequenced between the pair of clutches, so one gear is pre-engaged as the oither is in use, it will produce faster changes but has been effectively outlawed by the FIA as the system could imitate a CVT by slipping the clutches and keeping a constant drive between gears, the FIA demanded a system that could not allow this to happen, as this is controlled by electronics the FIA would not recognise the teams software code as proof.
McLarne ran a carbon gearbox on the MP4-18 which suffered with the heat of the exhausts routed near to it as they passed into the diffuser. this heat also lead to the suspension failures. I would guess the MP4-19 would choose to run a carbon gearbox now it uses periscope exhausts. Carbon gearbox casings have been less reliable, but mainly during their development, once sorted they pose no greater issues than a metallic casing. Note how Arrows ran one in their last year in F1 and few issues were reported with it..

[drspeed]

Speaking of carbon gearboxes, Arrows used to be the only team using them. Then they should have gone somewhere in last years auction of Arrows parts. Who bought them?

(auto log-in doesnt work!)

[Beostar]

Paul Stoddart bought all Arrows cars. Involving 3 ready to race and another 4 chassis involving everything they need to make the car driveable.

Jos Verstappen tested the A024? i think it was but with minardi layout it was the PS04 couple of months back at ... can't remember. Some english track at the end of all the test he was just as quick as the Minardi that he had been driving for 6 months at that time.

So in reply to your question they are in the Minardi garage for the moment.

Grtz
Beo

[Monstrobolaxa]

Carbon Gearbox casings first appeared in 1998 with 3 teams using them with very poor results........Arrows, Prost and Stewart......having Stewart obtaining the best result with them......to give you an idea Arrows used 28 gearbox casings during the whole season....normally teams use between 8 and 10 (between both race drivers.....test cars not included).

[Beostar]

tru. I remember Prost having LOADS of trouble with the carbon fibre gearbox.
What is your point of view about the Titanium gearbox Minardi made. and not sure still use?

[scarbs]

IIRC Prost never ran a carbon box

[Beostar]

IIRC ??
but i'm pretty sure they did use a carbon gearbox. They were to first to try them out. Could be wrong though..