Pescarolo's Wobbly Bobbly Wings

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hecti
hecti
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Joined: 30 Mar 2009, 08:34
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Re: Pescarolo Rear wing - legal for F1?

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i cant wait to see if any teams bring something similar to this to the next race

wesley123
wesley123
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008, 17:55

Re: Pescarolo Rear wing - legal for F1?

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dont tink so as it doesnt look pretty usefull imo, it might be useful for drag reduction but its execution on f1 wings is way different with the bigger chords f1 wing uses.
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siskue2005
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Joined: 11 May 2007, 21:50

Re: Pescarolo Rear wing - legal for F1?

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Formula None wrote:
marekk wrote:My guess is drag reduction.

Flow around a (hemi)sphere looks like this:

Image

and drag coeeficient:

Image

If they manage to tune the shape to achieve Reynolds number in the range of 5x10^5 at desired top speed, drag reduces suddenly due to highly turbulent wake region forming behind.
Makes sense. Flow around the hemispheres stays attached up to a certain speed & the gurney flap functions normally. Beyond a certain speed, flow cannot stay attached around they entire hemisphere, they then stall & reduce the effectiveness of the gurney flap.
So not only does it reduce drag, it will also stall at high speeds?

marekk
marekk
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Joined: 12 Feb 2011, 00:29

Re: Pescarolo Rear wing - legal for F1?

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siskue2005 wrote:So not only does it reduce drag, it will also stall at high speeds?
Not quite sure about this, but it would move trailing edge's stagnation point forward, reducing longitudal circulation (downforce) and maybe inducing sooner then normal flow separation on sucking side of the wing (partiall stall). Only wind tunel will tell.

There is no free lunch, so before you arrive at the optimal speed, you have to pay added drag (in comparision to "normal" flap) penalty, but this transition area is relatively narrow.

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Pescarolo Rear wing - legal for F1?

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wesley123 wrote:dont tink so as it doesnt look pretty usefull imo, it might be useful for drag reduction but its execution on f1 wings is way different with the bigger chords f1 wing uses.
Is there a limit on the cross sectional area of the wing profiles? I am wondering if the bulges add too much. :-k
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Tifoso
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Joined: 11 Feb 2007, 22:50

Re: Pescarolo Rear wing - legal for F1?

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I may be mistaken, but as far as I know, all the small cuts that these bubbles produce in the plane where the wing is will create more boundary layers.

Hydrodynamically, and thermally, the more boundary layers you have, the greater the pressure loss.

If you produce pressure loss you will create more turbulent flow around the "balls". These turbulent flow reduces considerably drag as marekk showed for internalt flow with the Reynold's number.

Also, the greater the Reynold's number, the further you are form the laminar regime. At turbulent regime you will have less drag. Moreover, the Reynolds number is function of the speed of the fluid, and therefore, the speed of the flow around the "balls" is greater.

Summing up, I believe that you would achieve drag reduction, and there is a slight chance that somehow, with higher Re numbers, you will have greater speeds at the top (and thus, more downforce).

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Pescarolo Rear wing - legal for F1?

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I did some simple CFD on the wing.

1. with balls
2. with balls and gurney
3. Normal
4. Normal with gurney
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proutyc
proutyc
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Joined: 08 Jun 2010, 05:19

Re: Pescarolo Rear wing - legal for F1?

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n smikle.... please tell. Very interested

cdsavage
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Joined: 25 Apr 2010, 13:28

Re: Pescarolo Rear wing - legal for F1?

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Pescarolo Rear wing - legal for F1?

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You are right.

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.ns ... 121208.pdf

I guess the balls were the lowest drag object they cut put in there so that they can lower the height of the gurney flap.
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Carbon Dev Racing
Carbon Dev Racing
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Joined: 25 Jun 2011, 21:59

Re: Pescarolo's Wobbly Bobbly Wings

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What an odd design - have any of the CFD/ CAD chaps done any tests on this?

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747heavy
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Joined: 06 Jul 2010, 21:45

Re: Pescarolo's Wobbly Bobbly Wings

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By the look of things, the idea was motivated by the mandatory 20 mm gurney rule in LeMans.
Peugeot brought their own interpretation of the idea for the race.

you find more about it here:

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/RCELeMans2011.html

Image
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RacingManiac
RacingManiac
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Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 02:29

Re: Pescarolo's Wobbly Bobbly Wings

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Also note on the same page you can see Peugeot's interpretation of it, which looks less weird...

Saribro
Saribro
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Joined: 28 Jul 2006, 00:34

Re: Pescarolo's Wobbly Bobbly Wings

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The point is to decrease the drag induced by the mandatory gurney. The only way to tilt it back like that, is to shape the top of the wingsurface somewhat non-standard :).

Caito
Caito
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Joined: 16 Jun 2009, 05:30
Location: Switzerland

Re: Pescarolo's Wobbly Bobbly Wings

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In racecar engineering the gurney angle theoris confirmed.

Though they said in high downforce circuit it's better to run with the regular gurney
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