BMW E41 2998cc V10

[HampusA]

Does anyone know if there are some articles specified about this engine or something that you think i might find interesting regarding this engine?

I´m a total BMW fanboy i confess, the V10 engine for me is like something god created on the eighth day or something (no, i´m not religious)

Just wondering if there are any nice articles or papers written about the monster of an engine that powered the Willams FW22-6 cars?

[ESPImperium]

Your chassis data is spot on, Williams did produce six FW22s.

I have no info on that engine.

[HampusA]

Ok, thanks i guess

Just wanted to read something about the power of the engine vs other F1 engines and maybe some myths or legend stories like the Turbo engine they had in the eighties

[HampusA]

I thought i´ve come to the Mecca of F1 technology yet nobody has any info regarding an engine which has almost reached a legendary status?

[Giblet]

I googled your topic title, and third link down the page was this

http://sd-2.archive-host.com/membres/up ... BMW_F1.pdf

Type V10-72º
Displacement 2,998 cc
Bore 94.0 mm
Stroke 42.3 mm
Cylinder spacing 107 mm
Bank offset 20.5 mm
Engine length 620 mm
Engine width 524 mm
Engine height 395 mm
Weight 117 kg
Centre of gravity height 167 mm
Max. output 810 hp
Max. torque 350 Nm
Max. engine speed 17,500 rpm
No. of valves 40
Intake valves 40.5 mm, titan.
Exhaust valves 31.2 mm, titan

There is even a cutaway of the crankcase.

[xpensive]

Great find Gib, when going through BMW's relentless V10 develoments, I find their disappointment of not winning either the WDC or WCC with Williams most understandable. Just behold the specs of the final, but never raced, P85;

Type V10-90°
Displacement 2,998.5 cc
Bore 98 mm
Stroke 39.75 mm
Cylinder spacing 102 mm
Bank offset 18mm
Engine length 575.0 mm
Engine width 517.0 mm
Engine height 290.0 mm
Weight 82 kg
Centre of gravity height 110 mm
Max. output >950 PS
Max. torque 360 Nm
Max. engine speed 19,800 rpm
No of valves 40
Intake valves 41,50 mm, titanium
Exhaust valves 34.40 mm titanium

Just amazing, 950 Hp and 82 kg? Note the bore vs cylinder spacing!

[hecti]

...

wow!! 4mm between cylinders! would have never guess it was that close!
do they use cylinder liners in f1?

[HampusA]

Great find Gib, when going through BMW's relentless V10 develoments, I find their disappointment of not winning either the WDC or WCC with Williams most understandable. Just behold the specs of the final, but never raced, P85;

Type V10-90°
Displacement 2,998.5 cc
Bore 98 mm
Stroke 39.75 mm
Cylinder spacing 102 mm
Bank offset 18mm
Engine length 575.0 mm
Engine width 517.0 mm
Engine height 290.0 mm
Weight 82 kg
Centre of gravity height 110 mm
Max. output >950 PS
Max. torque 360 Nm
Max. engine speed 19,800 rpm
No of valves 40
Intake valves 41,50 mm, titanium
Exhaust valves 34.40 mm titanium

Just amazing, 950 Hp and 82 kg? Note the bore vs cylinder spacing!

Holy crap, what a monster of an engine!
I can see that they have used the same philosophy in their S100RR motorbike.
(big bore, short stroke etc)

Btw, why wasn´t this raced? Was it when they switched to the V8´s?

Also, i think that the FW25 could have won both the WDC and WCC if Ferrari hadn´t complained about the wider front tires which ironically Ferrari themselves had some advantages the year after with Bridgestone.

A new, wider front tyre introduced by Michelin at the Monaco Grand Prix unlocked the potential of the FW25, which would win that race, score a double-podium at the Canadian Grand Prix, then go on to score dominant 1-2 victories at the European Grand Prix at the Nürburgring, and the next race, the French Grand Prix at Magny-Cours.
A change to the front tyre width caused by a protest lodged by Michelin's rivals Bridgestone, through the Ferrari team after the Hungarian Grand Prix caused controversy through the paddock, with Williams tipped to lose their competitive edge after that race due to a slimmer tyre design being raced at the Italian Grand Prix at Monza being seemingly at odds with the wider tyre that Williams brought with great effect to the Monaco Grand Prix. Despite Montoya's second place at Monza, being able to stay with eventual World Champion Michael Schumacher's Ferrari throughout the whole race, the FW25 would not win a race in the final three races of the season, the Italian GP, United States GP and Japanese GP took place after the tyre redesign. In fact, after Montoya's second place at the Italian Grand Prix at Monza - the FW25 would not earn another podium in the 2003 season, although Montoya led the final race at Suzuka before retiring with a hydraulics problem.

Thanks Giblet, great find.

[xpensive]

@ HampusA;

The engine had been designed and fine-tuned for a lifetime of 800 km, but a sudden rule change now threw the preparations into chaos. One and the same engine now had to be used for two race weekends running, i.e. it would have to be capable of covering 1,600 km. This was too much of a risk with a new – and “extreme” – engine concept. So the P85 project was stopped and instead the existing P84 was revised to meet the new endurance requirements.

[HampusA]

Pretty cool picture showing three generations of BMW F1 engines,


Ahh thanks xpensive, started reading the pdf after i asked the question.

[Just_a_fan]

That BMW document is a great find. Looking forward to a detailed read. Here is the summary:

One of the biggest changes was the switch from the 3.0-litre V10 to the 2.4-litre V8: engine output fell by 20%, while weight and centre of gravity height increased, due to the imposition of minimum values. The effect of the restrictions can be seen by the fact that in 2006 a V8 engine designed without regard to regulations could theoretically have achieved a weight of 69 kg and a centre of gravity height of just 118mm.

The robust construction imposed by the regulations, along with the 18,000 rpm engine speed limit, had benefits for engine lifetime and reliability: the engine with which Robert Kubica ended the 2009 season in Abu Dhabi had covered 2,000 km and taken part in four races. To compare once more, in 2000, a new engine was used every day, on Friday, Saturday and Sunday of a race weekend.

A comparison between the P86/9 of 2009 and the E41/4 of early 2000 reveals an astonishing picture: the engine power of 750 hp is exactly the same, in other words the 20% reduction in displacement was fully offset. Also, despite the minimum weight regulation, weight fell by 20% while engine lifetime increased fivefold.

I've highlighted some pretty cool snippets. For example, the thought of a 750bhp engine weighing just 69kg is quite scary in a fun sort of way. And the fact that the weight fell by a fifth but engine life increased five times. Nice bit of pseudo-symmetry there.

[HampusA]

Was a good read for sure, but in some way for every page i read it felt like engine development just died soon after the V8´s were introduced..

The last paragraph said something about the new engine regs but no hint at all if BMW would join the fleet seeing as they are very competent at turbo technology these days.
In some road cars they actually put the turbos inside the "V" which is pretty neat.

[Giblet]

Development did die as it was killed. The rules effectively banned the development of the engines once the designs were locked in. This is the very definition of homologation.

They have only been allowed minor equalization tweaks since the freeze and most of the gains on power have come from lubrication and ancillaries.

[xpensive]

An interesting note is that the V10 development went from 810 Hp to 950, 17.3%, while Rpm came from 17500 to 19800, 13.1%, all from 2000 (E41) to 2005 (P85), while max torque only increased with 2.9%, from 350 to 360 Nm.

But to me the weight-loss is still the most impressive, from 117 kg to 82, or 30%, they must have played safe with the E41?

[HampusA]

They have only been allowed minor equalization tweaks since the freeze and most of the gains on power have come from lubrication and ancillaries.

Who really has the most powerful engine now?
I´ve been told it´s the Mercedes engine..

BMW engine had 741hp judging from the diagrams. I wish we would see more free-er(?) engine regulations for the new turbo-era so manufacturers really can show their excellence instead of these tight regulations we have now with a fixed weight and centre of gravity.