McLaren MP4-12C

[Caito]

I'd actually ( if I had the money and the chance ) test both. It's pure speculation for the moment.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

The 458 is more balanced than the 12C. Looking at the footage of Plato, the Mclaren needed left and right correcttions out of most corners.
This switchback correction grows tiresome very very quickly, and the smoother Ferrari looks way more engaging to drive.

As for the drift at 140MPh, the Mclaren had its moment there too....but with 2 smaller corrections ...one left, one right.

There will some dissapointed McLaren fans, but the 458 is faster and more fun.

BUT, the difference is not great. A more refined version along the lines of a 911 Carrera S or V spec GTR Skyline could see the Mclaren match or even leap frog the 458, problem is Ferrari wont be standing still either.

[alelanza]

Did he complain about turbo lag? not sure if i heard him right, but if yes, in this day and age, that would confirm for me that the 458 is the better car

[Pup]

Well, first off, you can't properly test a car while wearing a pink sweater.

That said, I wonder if the problems these guys are having with the McLaren are a result of their developing the car specifically around Chris Goodwin's driving style.

[Caito]

Did anyone appart from that guy complained about the handling?

[TheRMVR]

I've seen the car, I sat in it, I've heard it and seen other people drive in it.

And to me it is an unfinished product. The interior is made out of beautiful materials but it has been put together very poorly. It rattels, some plastics used under the leather are too soft so you can dent them. And the ergonomics are not great, love the steering wheel though. It sounds nothing like a 170k supercar with 2 turbo's should, very very disappointing. I'm not really fond of the looks either, in a dark color it is oke but in that orange it looks old and dated. Again, not like a 170k supercar should. It doesnt have to scream or show off, but it should have a sort of presence.

Performance wise it is very quick in a straight line, allthough some people I've talked to who've driven it say there is a small form of turbo-lag. They also said it is very edgy and nervous when really pushing it due to the TC. But on the positive side, very smooth on the road.

I've waited a long time for this car to come around and I have to say that I'm disappointed overall. It just feels unfinished, the interior, the ride, the sound. Obviously the main rival is the Ferrari and I have to say that the Ferrari beats this car in probably every single category. You just need to bring a lot to the table when challenging Ferrari. They haven't brought enough.

[Giblet]

Clarkson said the exact opposite on Top Gear. That the interior was very Mclaren. Complete, well made, and clinically designed

I fully hear what you are saying though about the looks and what have you. But for a first production car every, to be mentioned in the same sentence as the 458 is quite a big accomplishment.

If this car was compared to the car formerly in this category, it beats it hands down (the 360), and to me that is very impressive.

I look forward to the second effort.

[CHT]

Here is a shoot out video between 911, Gallardo, SLS, R8, 458 and 12C.

Try making a guess before you watch it.

http://www.klips.net/video/gxbnsh-mclar ... tocar.html

[CHT]

Clarkson said the exact opposite on Top Gear. That the interior was very Mclaren. Complete, well made, and clinically designed

I fully hear what you are saying though about the looks and what have you. But for a first production car every, to be mentioned in the same sentence as the 458 is quite a big accomplishment.

If this car was compared to the car formerly in this category, it beats it hands down (the 360), and to me that is very impressive.

I look forward to the second effort.

So far all the comparison tests done between 12C and 458 haven't been very positive for 12C and 5th Gear is probably the worst of them all.

Yes, it is their first attempt on production car, but then again with all the heritage of winning F1 GP and WCC, one would at least expect the car to be quick around the proper race track.

I am afraid that once the novelty hype of the "first Mclaren supercar since the F1" dies down, Mclaren will have trouble growing their market share in this segment of the market. Lambo and porsche are all coming out with new rival model soon and judging from what they have VW has done with their Aventador, I am pretty sure the new car will be light and quick.

[Pandamasque]

Did anyone appart from that guy complained about the handling?

Also Tiff Needell, Ben Collins and some other guys quoted in previous pages. All complained about not understanding what the car wants from the driver and the fact that the aids can't be fully turned off (allegedly).

[Billzilla]

I suspect the nervousness of the 12C is because of the open diff and braking system used to control the wheelspin and traction.
I'm certainly not claiming to be smarter than Gordon Murray but I would have thought it'd be better to use something like a Quaife ATB and then a touch of the braking system they have to help stabilise the car. Make it inherently stable rather than force it to be.

[Just_a_fan]

it is their first attempt on production car, but then again with all the heritage of winning F1 GP and WCC, one would at least expect the car to be quick around the proper race track.

I am afraid that once the novelty hype of the "first Mclaren supercar since the F1" dies down, Mclaren will have trouble growing their market share in this segment of the market. Lambo and porsche are all coming out with new rival model soon and judging from what they have VW has done with their Aventador, I am pretty sure the new car will be light and quick.

Why should it be the quickest around a race track? It's not a track car. It is apparently very good on fast roads which is what it's designed for.

Your second paragraph reads like someone wishing McLaren will fail to be honest. They have set out to sell about 4500 MP4-12C / year at peak production. There's no reason to believe they'll fail to meet that fairly limited (in production car terms) target. Aston Martin's cars consistently fail to be fastest around tracks or to win group tests in mags but they still sell lots of V8 Vantages etc.

McLaren have two more models to bring to market - a hypercar (which I think we can expect to deliver the goods in performance terms at least) and a lesser model presumably targetting the 911/R8 segment. Let's see what they're like before we write off McLaren Automotive as a dead duck...

[munudeges]

I'm willing to give McLaren the benefit of the doubt because I'm suspicious of some of these reviews. They've created a fairly neutral, stable car that can be driven by just about anyone at speed safely.

I also wouldn't trust any comparison with the 458 given that Ferrari put loaded cars into these tests that are not actual road cars. Clarkson is the only one who gave a practical review of the 458, and that whole indicators and other instruments in the middle of the steering wheel is utterly laughable. A sat nav or a speedometer but not both? People honestly think the 458 interior is better than the 12C? In fact, ergonomically the McLaren makes the Ferrari look like it was put together by the Marx brothers. The car McLaren gave Top Gear wasn't the best looking 12C I've ever seen though.

[Richard]

OK, so journalists claim cars are better with TC turned off? Can someone explain to me why F1 teams are so desperate to sneak TC onto their cars?

Maybe McLaren needed to have some other TC modes:

"Journalist aka ricer aka Clarkson" - Excess torque to allow wheelspin and drifting, ABS allows one wheel to momentary lock up for smoke effects then intervenes to avoid hitting a barrier, full nanny intervention to prevent a roll

"Stig" - Does what it says on the tin, best lap time, but probably feels slower than "journalist" setting. A normal driver in this setting would probably get an ugly reminder that they are not a racing driver.

"Track Day" - the car is drivable, enjoyable, nice feedback in the controls, it helps you around the track in one piece but intervention is subtle so you can kid yourself that you have the skills of a racing driver. Faster lap time than journalist setting. Slower lap time than the Stig setting.

"Road" - good fuel consumption, you'll not upset the neighbours, you'll not be worn out at the end of a long drive wrestling with the wheel, your feet won't be twitching for hours afterwards.

[CHT]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahsIOVx93zs[/youtube]

This is probably the worst review of all. Ferrari must have paid them well for this.