Micheal Schumacher...The most complete driver....

[EDF]Fx · Post 28 Apr 2006, 15:45

Please there is no need to use foul language!

/ Fx

manchild · Post 28 Apr 2006, 15:56

Ok, I apologize if I was out of line but whoever wrote that quoted thing from another forum said stupid things about Schuey including Piquet, Senna, Coulthard, Villeneuve, Patrese, Brundle, Herbert, FIA and almost everyone else in F1 so I described it as I did (presuming that it wasn't written by any member of this forum).

*Previous post is now edited*

BTW, not all was quoted from that biographer... for 2006 he says:

2006 - If ferrari is within 3 tenths of Renaults pace, Alonso and Fisi can kiss the titles goodbye.

That's very analytic and impartial… wonder why was it left out of original quote?

Another interesting post from the page linked by Lightspeed saying something like "Piquet is hardly a who's who of F1 greats".

(lets face it, his team mates De Cesaris, Brundle, Piquet, Verstappen, Herbert, Irvine, Barrichello & Massa are hardly a who's who of F1 greats),

And that was written by some guy who doesn't like Schuey

Post 28 Apr 2006, 18:51

Well Piquet at that time was only in it for the money anymore. Schumacher already performed good in a Jordan and was incredibly motivated to show what he could do.

Second, about Senna. At the moment that happened, Schumi was like 2 seconds behind the Williams and was by no means a thread to the experienced Brazilian. There truly are some idiots out there who call themselves journalists.

Thrid... I can't remember any other driver being more questioned legally than Schumacher. So much infringements to the regulations, so many accidents. If ever Villeneuve was not able to finish that Jerez race, Schumacher should have been disqualified. Since then I really don't feel any sympathy for MS. I was unable to believe how some Ferrari fans can actually believe Schumi saying "I didn't see him coming".

Complete driver? He is, but he was just too aggresive at some points in his career for me to see him as a really great driver.

And finally... he will absolutely have to be a lot closer than 0.3s to Alonso's Renault to snatch away a title from him.

Scuderia_Russ · Post 28 Apr 2006, 19:14

Senna used to get four gos and a qualifying engine. For a significant proportion of his career Schumacher did not. Also the fact that Schumacher has significantly more wins than poles in his career may suggest that he has not always had the outright quickest machinery at his disposal. The reversal of these figures in Senna's case may suggest something else.

manchild · Post 28 Apr 2006, 19:18

Scuderia_Russ wrote:Senna used to get four gos.

Sorry, I don't understand this

Typo or slang?

Whatever that was about comparing statistics can get you only more statistics while for full evaluation of driver you need more than numbers.

Scuderia_Russ · Post 28 Apr 2006, 19:57

Should read attempts but I'm a lazy tw@t.

West · Post 28 Apr 2006, 20:03

Who the hell is Garry Walker? Fantastic analysis my ass

Michael Schumacher is obviously a talented driver but whoever wrote that article must be a kiss-ass fan boy - look at what the article said about 1997

Lightspeed · Post 28 Apr 2006, 20:11

Scuderia_Russ wrote:Senna used to get four gos and a qualifying engine. For a significant proportion of his career Schumacher did not. Also the fact that Schumacher has significantly more wins than poles in his career may suggest that he has not always had the outright quickest machinery at his disposal. The reversal of these figures in Senna's case may suggest something else.

Good observation. That's the hallmark of a great driver(read as Michael Schumacher)-being able to win with not necessarily the best car.

Sawtooth-spike · Post 28 Apr 2006, 20:13

i finaly got around to reading the garry walker thing, (which might as well ended "i want to marry michael"

my fav bit was this

2005 - Ferrari and BS struggle a lot.First time ever when MS driving at times looks shaky, but he is still a superb force to be reckoned with and can be called the teammate slayer

Team mate slayer eg. If they are winning, they have to let him passed so he can win. I so wish Irvine had one that season

Tom · Post 28 Apr 2006, 20:25

I am astounded that anyone could right that in all seriouseness. Its worse than some of my posts

.

But honestly, MS caused Sennas accident. My ass. IMO Senna's tyres hadn't warmed up enough or he yust hit a bump and couldn't get round the corner or slow down enough to avoid the major collision he had.

DC in Spa '98. MS blamed David, but if you watch the video DC is miles off-line, giving MS plenty of room. Unfortunetly the Ferrari guy didn't realise through the spray and drove around where he thought DC was, ending up running into him. Racing incident, unfortunate circumstances due to breakdown in communications. Exagerated stupidly by MS's reaction.

Jerez '97. No doubt MS tried to run JV off the road (and failed misserably, HA) He obvioussly sees the Williams because he clearly starts to give him room. Undoubtably he is looking in his mirrors. Suddenly he swings left with such ferocity he wouldn't have made it round the hairpin had JV not been there!

No doubt Michaels a hell of a driver from a time where the competition was weak, I admire a little Machiavellion-ness in a driver, it seperates winners from also rans. You will not win a WC by not overtaking because you stand a fair chance of knocking another guy about a little. But again MS takes it too far. Over the top with most of his moves (esspecially at the start!) This automatically degrades him and sets him firmly in the Bas**rd catagory along with ultimatly very few others. (I can't think of any at the moment)

Sorry to keep rambling on but that was a load of BS about MS!

manchild · Post 28 Apr 2006, 20:37

Lightspeed wrote:That's the hallmark of a great driver(read as Michael Schumacher)-being able to win with not necessarily the best car.

He had best car in 1994 & 1995 (as good as Williams at least), 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004 so wins with non-dominate car are rare exceptions not rule and all drivers had them in their careers so nothing special about that. Even drivers without WDC like Alesi or Berger had such wins against much greater oposition.

Ciro Pabón · Post 28 Apr 2006, 20:41

"Hawthorn now led Ascari and Fangio who would soon garner the lead. It was now Fangio in first followed by Hawthorn and Ascari. Soon Fangio and Hawthorn began to pull away from the rest of the field.

They battled wheel to wheel lap after lap many times coming abreast just before having to slam on their breaks for one of the hairpins. The crowd of course was going wild and could actually observe Hawthorn grinning at the Argentinean driver as they raced abreast along one of the long straights. Fangio tried every trick he knew to shake this young pretender but to no avail...

While the two leaders were engrossed in their race long duel they came upon a much slower car. Entering the right hand curve following the pits there would be room for only one car, but with a gesture unheard of in current Grand Prix racing Hawthorn pulled his car over as far as he dared. With two wheels actually on the grass both he and Fangio could pass together and continue their battle. The crowd upon hearing this let out a roar of approval.

Fangio using all of his experience forced his way pass Hawthorn and was leading the race as it entered its last laps. But Hawthorn was not done yet.

He was observed pulling out several times looking to pass only to fall back. Time was running out as they entered the last lap with Fangio leading by one car length but upon entering the last corner Hawthorn had pulled up even. Hawthorn braked at the last possible instant and took a slightly different line which allowed him to out accelerate Fangio's Maserati upon exiting the corner. Hawthorn was able to hold his car on the track and he crossed the line one second ahead of Fangio after 309 miles and 2 hr. 44 min. of racing. In the end 4.6 seconds spanned the first four cars for a Ferrari, Maserati, Ferrari, Maserati finish and so ended the greatest race of the century."

-- Grand Prix History, Greatest Race of the Century --

"Sportsmanship

Sportsmanship is a great tradition in sports and competition that means playing clean and handling both victory and defeat with grace style and dignity...

Sportsmen and women behave this way because they believe in this "golden rule" of sports. It is nothing more than being treated like one wants to be treated, that is with respect to oneself, to the rules of the game, to one's teammates and opponents, coaches and game officials as well as supporters and spectators.

Sportsmanship, on and off the field of play, always has a positive effect on everyone around us."

-- Malta Olympic Committee --

Enuf said about Schumi.

Tom · Post 28 Apr 2006, 20:57

I have won several awards for sporsmanship (probably because thats the only thing they can give me to make me feel special) in rugby, football, karting and car club events, yet I have never scored a try/goal (I did actually get 1 fluke)/win. Nuff said?

allan · Post 29 Apr 2006, 08:39

manchild wrote: He had best car in 1994 & 1995 (as good as Williams at least), 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004 so wins with non-dominate car are rare exceptions not rule and all drivers had them in their careers so nothing special about that. Even drivers without WDC like Alesi or Berger had such wins against much greater oposition.

But u can't deny that he was the reason that ferrari became so dominant in f1, just look at how many (dnf)s he has had between 96,99 and yet he didn't loose his temper as kimi did in just 2004,even though i'm a huge fan of kimi, but i used it just for comparing between 2 drivers in the same situation.
another thing, why do u think that Beneton had made such a dominant car only when they had michael? it's realy funny that they haven't won any race until 2003??!!

manchild · Post 29 Apr 2006, 11:16

allan wrote:But u can't deny that he was the reason that ferrari became so dominant in f1, just look at how many (dnf)s he has had between 96,99 and yet he didn't loose his temper as kimi did in just 2004,even though i'm a huge fan of kimi, but i used it just for comparing between 2 drivers in the same situation.
another thing, why do u think that Beneton had made such a dominant car only when they had michael? it's realy funny that they haven't won any race until 2003??!!

Here's my oppinion...

Team can become dominant only if it has dominant car. No driver or two drivers can make team dominant in mid-field car. Engineers and designer can make dominant car while good driver can only improve its domination. So, the reason for Ferrari's dominance was work of their engineers (with a little help from FIA). Benetton was as good as Williams in 1994 and 1995 although I'd say that in 1994 Williams was better but suffered under huge loss. When it matters 1994 don't forget that Benetton was using illegal launch control and that Schuey won WDC after slamming into Hill.

Benetton suffered from same thing as Williams - both of them were using Renault engines in 1995, 1996 and 1997 and than Renault withdrew leaving teams with Mecachorome/Playlife surrogates that were not competitive. Williams recovered a bit after BMW started supplying them with engines and Benetton was bought by Renault so they never actually won after 1997.