R.I.P Dan Wheldon, 1978-2011

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Tozza Mazza
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Re: R.I.P Dan Wheldon, 1978-2011

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hardingfv32 wrote:These are big boys. They now they are playing with fire and are going to get bit every once in a while. If they don't like the risks they can pick another sport. How many drivers do you think would not race after this accident AT this track?

The tracks in the major US markets (population centers) are built to NASCAR specs. NASCAR being the most profitable US race organization. These configurations will always be very fast for Indy cars. So if Indy Cars wants access to a major market they have to take the gamble. Thats just the way things are today in the US.

Brian
This is the most heartless thing I have ever read on F1T. This thread is for paying respects to a brave man, who had a whole life with his young family ahead of him, cruely taken away in a horrific accident.

People shouldn't die doing their jobs, no matter what it is, so let's just hope motorsport stays fatality free, and that improvements are made to improve safety, whilst not comprimising in the quality of the racing.

Other sports have a lot to learn from F1, and how its changes in safety have been so succesful.

R.I.P

RB7ate9
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Re: R.I.P Dan Wheldon, 1978-2011

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Would it be possible to set up a different thread that will continue covering the investigation and developments from this accident?

While folks could perhaps add any information regarding the man and his career here?

As JohnsonsEvilTwin points out, here should *not* be the place for debates on safety.
Last edited by RB7ate9 on 17 Oct 2011, 23:34, edited 1 time in total.

jdlyon
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Re: R.I.P Dan Wheldon, 1978-2011

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Rest in peace Dan Wheldon and I am very sorry for his family.

Here he is recently being a good role model for karters (interview at 2:45):
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAnXp_L6 ... re=related[/youtube]

jdlyon
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Re: R.I.P Dan Wheldon, 1978-2011

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Moderators, if a new thread is created to analyze the accident please move this there...

I am not entirely comfortable posting this video, but it includes various replays which might give some evidence of what caused his fatal injury. At 7:53, you can see the catch fence absorb much of the energy of the crash, right at the vertical post. Starting at 3:50, an onboard with Wheldon shows most of the way through the crash. From this video it seems like the roll structure survived the impact with the catch fence.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9kV9Vquqhc[/youtube]

RB7ate9
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Re: R.I.P Dan Wheldon, 1978-2011

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jdlyon wrote:Moderators, if a new thread is created to analyze the accident please move this there...

I am not entirely comfortable posting this video, but it includes various replays which might give some evidence of what caused his fatal injury. At 7:53, you can see the catch fence absorb much of the energy of the crash, right at the vertical post. Starting at 3:50, an onboard with Wheldon shows most of the way through the crash. From this video it seems like the roll structure survived the impact with the catch fence.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9kV9Vquqhc[/youtube]
I believe the commentators stated that the onboard at 3:50 was with Will Power, who managed to survive the crashes with minimal harm. I can only imagine that the footage from Wheldon's car is kurt and under in-depth investigation before it becomes released to the public, if ever.

-Tifosi_dude-
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Re: R.I.P Dan Wheldon, 1978-2011

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How many drivers have to die before IRL learns a lesson, reminds me of F1 in the 60s. A real shame, rest in peace Dan :cry:

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Scorpaguy
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Re: R.I.P Dan Wheldon, 1978-2011

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I have been on this track at 160mph ("Nascar Experience"). I have never been more taken aback in my life. I cannot fathom 30+ cars at 220mph on this "tiny track"....at 160mph it seemed about 10' wide. The skill and bravery of these men are staggering. Indy cars do not belong on high-banked ovals....I recall a similar disaster averted at Texas Motor Speedway a few years back (all of the drivers boycotted the fiasco after a few practice crashes).

Dan....you are a class act and will be missed....but never forgotten.

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WhiteBlue
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Re: R.I.P Dan Wheldon, 1978-2011

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-Tifosi_dude- wrote:How many drivers have to die before IRL learns a lesson, reminds me of F1 in the 60s. A real shame, rest in peace Dan :cry:
Totally support this view. Are they ever going to learn from these tragedies? Only five years ago we had Dana die and if they do not do something the killing will continue. So sad!!!

R.I.P. Dan
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

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FW17
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Re: R.I.P Dan Wheldon, 1978-2011

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It is sad that any driver has to die, but I have to say he died doing what he loved just as the 33 others who went out that day.

WhiteBlue wrote:
-Tifosi_dude- wrote:How many drivers have to die before IRL learns a lesson, reminds me of F1 in the 60s. A real shame, rest in peace Dan :cry:
Totally support this view. Are they ever going to learn from these tragedies? Only five years ago we had Dana die and if they do not do something the killing will continue. So sad!!!

R.I.P. Dan

Are you suggesting to end Indy 500?

myurr
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Re: R.I.P Dan Wheldon, 1978-2011

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-Tifosi_dude- wrote:How many drivers have to die before IRL learns a lesson, reminds me of F1 in the 60s. A real shame, rest in peace Dan :cry:
Totally agree that it's a real shame and I hope that lessons are learned and safety is improved.

However IRL today is a lot safer than it was a few years ago, and ironically that Las Vegas circuit is actually one of the safer tracks with the SAFER walls system installed around the whole track. So whilst there is clearly a lot more that can be done, it is desperately unfair to say that safety lesson haven't been learned or that those in charge are holding back safety. You also have to remember that there isn't nearly as much money involved in the teams or for those running the series as there is in F1, and high tech safety costs money.

Having seen a fair few IRL accidents there are definitely some things that I'd like to see improved:

1) Absolute top priority must be improvement to the catch fences. Every time a car ends up in the fences they get absolutely shredded, and from the early reports coming out now it sounds like this was again the main problem in Dans horrific accident. There has to be something they can do to stop the cars getting tangled up in the fences, maybe polycarbonate screens in front of the fences to deflect and absorb the impact, with the fences being a precautionary backup to protect the crowd.

2) SAFER walls need to be installed everywhere on all circuits.

3) The cars seem to burst into flames a bit too easily. I'd guess this is more a function of the crash structures than the fuel tanks, but whatever the reason those cars need to contain fuel much more effectively.

4) When a car does get airborn it appears that the body of the car seems to give it lift rather than pushing it back down to the ground. In general in F1 when we see a car get airborn it *tends* to come back down relatively quickly even if the front wing is damaged. The only recent crash I can think of where an F1 car was airborn for a protracted period of time was Webber in Valencia last year. This could be a factor of design or the average speeds, I don't know with any certainty.

Next years IRL cars should help with stopping cars from getting thrown up in to the air so easily due to the partially covered / protected wheels.

These crash fences are in use in F1 as well, it's just that F1 is blessed with larger run off areas in most places, slower speeds, and cars that don't tend to get thrown up into the air. So F1 too should get involved and help both series come up with a safer solution.

gridwalker
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Re: R.I.P Dan Wheldon, 1978-2011

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This is a technical forum and it is natural for people of our inclination to discuss the mechanics of the incident, complete with the full set of "coulda, woulda and shoulda" arguments (replete with the benefit of hindsight). This is OK and to be expected, but I would kindly request that we all take 10 minutes out of our day to watch the tribute paid by everyone at the circuit and to reflect upon the man who paid the ultimate price for sport.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezBl0PII ... r_embedded[/youtube]

R.I.P Dan Wheldon : Britain will never fully appreciate what it has lost.
"Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine ..."

munudeges
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Re: R.I.P Dan Wheldon, 1978-2011

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Completely agree. Indycar needs to get its head out of the sand. This does threaten open wheel oval racing unfortunately.

1. Totally agree. Improving wall safety is useless if the catch fencing remains as it is. Unfortunately there have been horrible instances of drivers themselves being shredded against it. In this day and age that should never be happening.

2. Yep. Review of all circuits and walls.

3. If Formula 1 has got to a stage where not a drop of fuel can be spilt with large accident energy contained in a tight area then Indycars can do it as well. Indycar has long had this weird idea that simply using methanol/ethanol and focusing on the fuel is the answer, but they need to focus on total containment in high speed crashes.

4. The airborne problem has been in Formula 1 in the past, and it only really changed once technology improved and we started getting much improved levels of raw downforce on the cars and a better understanding of what they were doing. You take Mark Webber's accident at Valencia and the car instantly came down and righted itself. The same thing could be seen with Kubica's large accident at Canada, when that was probably even worse because he flew off into a couple of walls at an odd angle. If that was an Indycar I would hazard a guess we would see the thing fly out to the side of the circuit Kenny Brack style. The evolution of aerodynamics in Indycar is like something from the stone age.

Personally, I don't like racing formulas doing those kinds of high speeds without technology constantly evolving. I believe Indycar needs to become more like Formula 1, leading with technology, and that means it needs to reinvent itself - which it needs to do anyway judging from viewing figures. Those idiotic Delta things are not the answer.

Dan Wheldon needs to be the catalyst to do a complete about-face in the sport, but I sadly suspect he won't be.

munudeges
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Re: R.I.P Dan Wheldon, 1978-2011

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gridwalker wrote:R.I.P Dan Wheldon : Britain will never fully appreciate what it has lost.
No, we won't. I fully expected him to end up in Formula 1 when I saw him in the 90s and was rather sad that yet another talented driver had ended up stateside because there wasn't room or money for him. How got a BMW Sauber offer, but by then he'd thrown himself into life over there and was enjoying himself.

wesley123
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Re: R.I.P Dan Wheldon, 1978-2011

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I am in the opinion that accidents like this cant be fixed. Accidents like these are very rare to happen, and when they happen they happen. For example in 1999, Greg Moore crashed with the top of his roll bar hitting the wall at 300kph, no way he could survive that and neither do they now or in the next ten years, and the same counts for formula 1. Next years car will definately be a step upward in driver safety as well as in small collisions, like last weekend which caused cars to just take off, in Formula 1 this same thing would happen too, yet they dont run in lowest df trim. When an F1 car turns backwards suddenly its rear wing will act like an airbrake, however on an Indycar it would not, due to the much lower angles of attack. In NASCAR they have succesfully applied such airbrakes, and I am sure they can incorporate it in the next Indycar that the flap goes upwards in a sudden 90 degree turn, killing all lift.

Although with all of this I have to admit it has waken me up, for the last few years I was in the opinion that autosport was safe enough, yet I am proving wrong with Dan Wheldon leaving a young family behind.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

munudeges
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Re: R.I.P Dan Wheldon, 1978-2011

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wesley123 wrote:Although with all of this I have to admit it has waken me up, for the last few years I was in the opinion that autosport was safe enough, yet I am proving wrong with Dan Wheldon leaving a young family behind.
I haven't followed Indycar properly for some time, but for those of us who have watched enough of it we all realise that very little has changed over the years since the deaths of Greg Moore and Paul Dana.

It's a pivotal moment for Indycar's survival, no doubt about it.