Briton Dan Wheldon is confirmed to have died after a horrible crash in today's IndyCar season finale at Las Vegas. The crash involved 12 cars on a high speed oval, but while all other drivers came out without too much injury, Dan Wheldon unfortunately did not make it.
Total BS from Coulthard, IRL safety is better than F1. F1 needs to stop pretending that they are the forefront of everything that is motorsport."Formula 1, I felt, was at an acceptable level but IndyCar was, and is, probably 20 years behind in terms of safety.
- David Coulthard
As it stands right now, that's a bit of an idiotic thing to say.WilliamsF1 wrote:Total BS from Coulthard, IRL safety is better than F1.
A loose spring caused a near death in case of Massa. While a F1 car can take a bucket load of punishment there are a few blind spots. The same way IRL/CART cars in past were doing an average lap of 240 mphmunudeges wrote:As it stands right now, that's a bit of an idiotic thing to say.WilliamsF1 wrote:Total BS from Coulthard, IRL safety is better than F1.
Indycar, even before Dan's death, was in a very, very poor state. In terms of safety there have been some things they have brought in, belatedly it has to be said, but mostly in terms of circuit design and thought and the progression of technology it is twenty years behind as Coulthard says. Rodriguez's death in 1999 at Laguna was completely preventable and a real joke, and nothing has changed.
The 'crash structure' in Indycars are a joke. All they do is promote complete disintegration of the car and more unpredictable movement into the accident causing more serious injury. They're miles behind.
, they could crash anyway and most cases drivers walk away. Dan, Paul and few others in the past decades were unable to.Indeed, but how can you even protect drivers hitting each other with 350kph plus? you simply cannot, on roll hoop strength and such the new one might be safer, but colliding with an stationairy car will still be as dangerous.munudeges wrote:I haven't followed Indycar properly for some time, but for those of us who have watched enough of it we all realise that very little has changed over the years since the deaths of Greg Moore and Paul Dana.wesley123 wrote:Although with all of this I have to admit it has waken me up, for the last few years I was in the opinion that autosport was safe enough, yet I am proving wrong with Dan Wheldon leaving a young family behind.
It's a pivotal moment for Indycar's survival, no doubt about it.
First of all, there shouldn't be open wheel racers with that much cars in such a small and relatively narrow track at such speeds. Next, the catchfences should be looked at -- Jeff Krosnoff died at road course after hitting the catchfence. And last -- closed cockpits or safety-cells as on top-fuel dragsters should be studied.wesley123 wrote:Indeed, but how can you even protect drivers hitting each other with 350kph plus? you simply cannot, on roll hoop strength and such the new one might be safer, but colliding with an stationairy car will still be as dangerous.
WilliamsF1 wrote:Total BS from Coulthard, IRL safety is better than F1. F1 needs to stop pretending that they are the forefront of everything that is motorsport."Formula 1, I felt, was at an acceptable level but IndyCar was, and is, probably 20 years behind in terms of safety.
- David Coulthard
I wonder where F1 got HANS, cockpit side walls, tethers, rear crash structure etc. Safety was always a paramount in US and IRL/CART.
A agree with what you're saying, but if you noticed Dan's car the roll hoop looked like it came clean off, like ripped apart from the car. For me that is unacceptable. Also, IRL cars have a tendency to catch fire almost instantly, I think 3-4 cars caught fire yesterday. Is it due to the fuel they use? If it is then why don't they switch to regular race fuel, like F1 for instance. The fires have to end, that has to be addressed asap. The chassis they've been using, if I remember correctly is from 2001 (correct me if I'm wrong) why couldn't they address those safety issues beforehand?myurr wrote:Totally agree that it's a real shame and I hope that lessons are learned and safety is improved.-Tifosi_dude- wrote:How many drivers have to die before IRL learns a lesson, reminds me of F1 in the 60s. A real shame, rest in peace Dan
However IRL today is a lot safer than it was a few years ago, and ironically that Las Vegas circuit is actually one of the safer tracks with the SAFER walls system installed around the whole track. So whilst there is clearly a lot more that can be done, it is desperately unfair to say that safety lesson haven't been learned or that those in charge are holding back safety. You also have to remember that there isn't nearly as much money involved in the teams or for those running the series as there is in F1, and high tech safety costs money.
Having seen a fair few IRL accidents there are definitely some things that I'd like to see improved:
1) Absolute top priority must be improvement to the catch fences. Every time a car ends up in the fences they get absolutely shredded, and from the early reports coming out now it sounds like this was again the main problem in Dans horrific accident. There has to be something they can do to stop the cars getting tangled up in the fences, maybe polycarbonate screens in front of the fences to deflect and absorb the impact, with the fences being a precautionary backup to protect the crowd.
2) SAFER walls need to be installed everywhere on all circuits.
3) The cars seem to burst into flames a bit too easily. I'd guess this is more a function of the crash structures than the fuel tanks, but whatever the reason those cars need to contain fuel much more effectively.
4) When a car does get airborn it appears that the body of the car seems to give it lift rather than pushing it back down to the ground. In general in F1 when we see a car get airborn it *tends* to come back down relatively quickly even if the front wing is damaged. The only recent crash I can think of where an F1 car was airborn for a protracted period of time was Webber in Valencia last year. This could be a factor of design or the average speeds, I don't know with any certainty.
Next years IRL cars should help with stopping cars from getting thrown up in to the air so easily due to the partially covered / protected wheels.
These crash fences are in use in F1 as well, it's just that F1 is blessed with larger run off areas in most places, slower speeds, and cars that don't tend to get thrown up into the air. So F1 too should get involved and help both series come up with a safer solution.
Paul Dana's crash and this one have nothing in common. Dana had plenty of time to change course and was told to go low by his spotter. He was going 176 miles per hour at the time of impact, he shouldn't have been going anywhere near that speed. His accident and death was due to inexperience and his own mistake. Dan Wheldon and the rest of the racers involved at Las Vegas literally had nowhere to go and nothing they could do. Those instances couldn't be more different.WhiteBlue wrote:Totally support this view. Are they ever going to learn from these tragedies? Only five years ago we had Dana die and if they do not do something the killing will continue. So sad!!!-Tifosi_dude- wrote:How many drivers have to die before IRL learns a lesson, reminds me of F1 in the 60s. A real shame, rest in peace Dan
R.I.P. Dan
I actually do think of him every now and then. Brings my memory back to another absurd crash, occurred to Greg Moore. But I guess mostly because I saw him winning at the Indy 500 last year and somehow got impressed and interested by him as a pilot and sportsman. Knowing he died on the very last race of the season really made me sad, it was as if I kinda had something in common with him: I was also there when he won, not long before he died.CogKitteh wrote:It's a few months later and I'm still thinkin' of Wheldon. Anyone else thinkin' about 'im too? While accidents aren't anything new, the racing world will indeed not be the same without him. My buddy Matt absolutely adored him! When he got into that wreck, it's almost as if I could see Matt's heart breaking. Seeing stuff like this always makes me reevaluate my life. Y'know, like asking what my priorities are? Researching an injury attorney for future incidents may be something to think about. Or, one could get a "safer" vehicle with a hefty frame (along with other protective attributes. Different people have different priorities.
