Ranting

[m3_lover]

The C6 Z06 beats everything in it's price catergory and more (Gallardo, BMW M Series, mostly all the AMG series exlcuding the SLR), nothing can beat it in its price catergory and with a warranty.

Dumrick (a.k.a The Mclaren Man) I would have never thought you hatef Ferrari lol

[manchild]

Manchild, could you please correct the link? It says "No post for this thread".

Sorry Ciro, Tomba closed that thread after I posted this one. Tom just went in the crossfire like UN peace keeper so since he risked his neck I did what I did

I conclude that they were cheating because they've changed their front wings after FIA told them to do so. If they were certain that detail analysis would prove that their wings are legal they wouldn't have changed them, would they?

Problem is in fact that everyone has political and financial interests – so no one is directly attacking anyone and we have season filled with suspicions but no action to determine the truth.

Before suspicion cars were checked and teams were sanctioned. Nowadays FIA introduced "hints" to avoid problems by telling bad guys to hide stolen goods in case police (FIA) becomes forced to act by regulations. Since that became practice even though it collides with sporting regulations Ferrari can cheat as much as they like and wait for "hint" that would give them enough time to make changes so that after next event they can pass eventual inspection of suspicious part.

Bottom line, Ross Brown admitted that their car is illegal when he said “all cars are illegal”. Like some criminal has said “I robbed a bank but I’m not to be blamed because I think the rest of you robbed a bank too”. I really wonder why teams didn’t press charges against him for saying that. At least I’d expect so from Sir Frank or Ron Dennis.

[saam]

I tell you some of the ways you people manipulate words coming from F1 teams you dont like, you should all become politicians.

We dont care what you think or assume about F1 teams or people who CREATED them. Take a look at yourself and say "how did i change the world"?

Truth is in life when you are the greatest at someting you will always have enemies, eg: america for being a superpower, bin larden for blowing up things before you could, michael jackson for being weird, michael schumacher for being the greatest, and YES even Ferrari.

I think some people want to set records in how much crap they can post rather than stick to facts and figures. But no, we all have opinions, even if they are full of ...t

[West]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I wouldn't take a Ferrari because there's way too many people that want to buy them just to say they own one, and not for the performance. If I had the money (never will happen), the only Ferrari I would CONSIDER is the F40 - that, I believe, is the driver's Ferrari. I'm getting tired of their cars getting heavier and heavier with the only cure being enlarge the engine.

I don't hate Ferrari. I haven't even really commented on them this season, besides the obvious front-wing incident earlier this season. I just think there are too many bandwagoners out there for this team. The true fans stuck with them when they were nothing to write about, and when they made sh*tty a$$ cars (I've seen them)

[zac510]

My turn on the pedestal

I've had a few rants in my time, some on this board and many more on other boards. Eventually I learnt that arguing on internet boards is pretty much useless. Nobody listens and everybody has their own pre-conceived idea or bias.

That's why the tech stuff is so much more interesting to read and learn about- you can't change physics, although you can make it flexible

[manchild]

I think some people want to set records in how much crap they can post rather than stick to facts and figures. But no, we all have opinions, even if they are full of ...t

Takes one to know one

Facts and figures don't tell you the truth. Fact is that Hermann Goering had greatest art collection in Europe during WWII and figure is that he achieved that faster than anyone else before him. Saying that without mentioning HOW he achieved it is the same as praising Schumacher and Ferrari boom in the previous 10 years based on facts and figures without saying HOW they did it.

[zac510]

It doesn't make it any less of a fact manchild.

[manchild]

It doesn't make it any less of a fact manchild.

I know that it doesn't but it ads the truth - explanation how result presented trough facts and figures was achieved. If something is achieved dishonestly facts and figures loose their meaning for people who care about moral side rather than statistics.

[Tp]

I conclude that they were cheating because they've changed their front wings after FIA told them to do so. If they were certain that detail analysis would prove that their wings are legal they wouldn't have changed them, would they?

I think this is because teams including Ferrari misinterpreted the regulations incorrectly, so a meeting with the FIA took place to understand the legality of the flexible wing, but like you said the FIA must of dropped a hint to the teams not just Ferrari, remember it wasn't just Ferrari who changed their wings for the next race.

[Ciro Pabón]

I conclude that they were cheating because they've changed their front wings after FIA told them to do so. If they were certain that detail analysis would prove that their wings are legal they wouldn't have changed them, would they?

Ah. Ok, you're right. Actually I posted the "I didn't do it but you did it too!" thread.

They cheated and they weren't slapped. Probably they did it this way just to "encourager les outres" ("to move the others", the justification I think Rosseau gave for guillotine).

Don't be too hard on Brawn. Every time he cheats succesfully he is rewarded! They pay him to try to rob the bank... or at least to make a good deal with them, not an easy thing to do. As they say in Colombia: "For robbers, it is easier to own a bank than to rob one".

[Ciro Pabón]

I tell you some of the ways you people manipulate words coming from F1 teams you dont like, you should all become politicians.

Dear saam:

"Anthropos zoon politikon" (Man is a political animal)

-Aristotle-

It doesn't make it any less of a fact manchild.

Dear zac510:

This is exactly the point: it is a fact for shame. What is worth a Ferrari championship now, when the victories obtained after such a long effort are tainted?

[zac510]

Now you are spining a fact with human emotion, it is no longer a fact

[manchild]

The truth is fact too and it is the kind of fact that can tell something about remaining facts and figures while they can't tell anything about it. Only if all facts are observed together they can give the true picture about some issue otherwise judgment made relying only on isolated facts leads to illusions

Example:

1. Schuey won F3 WDC in 1990 = true fact that says good thing about him
2. He won it by smashing Hakkinen out of race = true fact that denies any good in first fact

1. Schuey won WDC in 1994 = true fact that says good thing about him
2. He won by it smashing Hill out of race = true fact that denies any good in first fact

1. Schuey was close to win WDC in 1997 = true fact that says good thing about him
2. He was close to win because he tried to smash Villeneuve out of race = true fact that denies any good in first fact

Overall - a clear pattern in behavior that denies any good in figures that support story about Schuey's greatness

[zac510]

In all your #2 examples they may well be fact, but you are lacing them with your opinion on whether the fact is right or wrong.

Therefore they are not a pure fact, they are just your opinion on whether Schumacher did right or wrong when he made the manoeuvre.

A fact plus another fact equals just two facts. Two facts are not a conclusion or an answer.

Two facts plus an opinion is a conclusion!

[DaveKillens]

The only concrete facts are the statistics in the record book. But we all have opinions, and some people derive theirs purely from the records, while others argue their point based on other factors.There are many kinds of fans, and each and every one has their unique viewpoint. But for each win, there's a story behind it, a story that most causal fans are unaware of. But the more a fan learns, the more understand they develop about what really is happening in Formula One, the politics, the partnerships, the drama and crap that goes on behind the track.
The sad part is that for the general population, the win is all that matters. You may be the most unethical and dirty driver, but if you win, all is forgiven and forgotten by the adoring fans. And sponsors only care about the bottom line, sales and advertising. How a driver got their logo plastered across the newspapers is of little concern, it's just that the advertising is there.
But let's please remember we're all race fans, only with different perspectives and drivers to cheer for.