Ranting

[pyry]

yeah, they probably dont have to import their own cars

[Tom]

Modern Ferraris are far too dull. Give me a Dino anyday and the same for Lambourginis. Their tractors were more exciting. French cars, don't get me started on what people have told me about the Bugatti Veyron! (Another Jason:

Ha the Veyron is faster than one of your stupid F1 cars anyday!

) Stick to the real ones, they are all the same so parts are easy. Porsche have had the same looks for the past 5 years and no one has anything interesting anymore. Avoid Rovers!¬

Give me a piece of paper and a pen and I will design countless beauties, which would probably be as fast and roadholding if manufactured. Unfortunetly it may seem as though F1 has also reaced a pinacle were design changes will be small and rule influenced. Doh.

Sorry but this is a ranting topic

[pyry]

yeah, they probably dont have to import their own cars

[pyry]

Volkswagen Group 124,662 81,163 292,058 29.0% 30.0%
GM/Opel 59,490 34,598 127,048 13.8% 13.1%
DaimlerChrysler 44,456 30,308 105,580 10.3% 10.9%
Ford/Ford-Werke 43,463 27,199 96,531 10.1% 9.9%
BMW 30,535 18,171 67,067 7.1% 6.9%
Renault 27,782 17,673 64,545 6.5% 6.6%
Fiat 16,970 12,526 42,385 3.9% 4.4%
Citroen/Peugeot 17,447 11,036 40,576 4.1% 4.2%
Nissan 12,494 4,088 21,970 2.9% 2.3%
Toyota 12,038 5,378 20,718 2.8% 2.1%
Honda 4,887 3,415 10,737 1.1% 1.1%
Porsche 1,357 610 2,778 0.3% 0.3%
Other 34,315 23,095 80,504 8.0% 8.3%
Totals 429,896 269,260 972,497 100.0% 100.0%

lets cut to the chase, here i present car sales in germany: the first five all being german, 65%, with renault in sixth with 6.6%.

edit: sorry about the multiple post, i was too eager

[vyselegend]

german cars rock, french cars suck. speaking in everyday driving terms.

You may be surprised, but that's the opinion of the majority of french people, german cars are applauded for their strong style of course, but the argument I hear most often is "qualité perçue" --> perceived quality, hence the very hard effort french manufacturers make those recent years to upgrade the finition work. Just look how Peugeot are progressively changing from an italian line (206, 406 etc) to a sturdy one, I would say a german one (307, 407...). The back of the 407 is obviously inspired by Audi (which seem to be their model), and the inside of the car is going that way too (still a long way to go here).

Still, french cars are topping the sell charts, at least in france and are also in a strong position through Europe, mostly because of the competitive price, and I think especially because of the low fuel consumtion rate, a very strong argument nowadays. Renault is also building a strong reputation of safety (I think the laguna was the first car to be granted five stars at an euro crash test), and Citroen is known for the way their cars hold together with the road (I've been said it is the only manufacturer worldwide to develop it's own suspention system).

Those qualities are respectable, but not very seducing compared to german's one (power, sturdyness, sport behavior with rear wheel drive, and luxury), especially for young and rich people, who put a lot of importance on the look, to the detriment of the global philosophy of efficiency, durability and rentability.

All that to say french cars doesn't produce high heart beats like german's, but seem to conform better to modern people worries, which are budget, reliability, and security.

[West]

My car has French roots in the sense that Nissan is owned by Renault, so hats off to them. In the 90's I wouldn't even bother owning a Nissan until the Cost Cutter made some serious changes. Now I am proud to own a Nissan.

Today's Ferraris are getting heavier and heavier and to me that makes them less appealling. I bet nowadays people are buying the name, not the car - something Enzo hated. If I had that money, give me an Aston Martin. It may not be fast, but it's elegant and doesn't have the "look at me" styling a Ferrari has.

I would have loved to own a Porsche until they made their SUV.

As for German cars... everybody in SoCal has them. And just like what I stated before, I can bet 80% are just buying the name - hence the abundance of lower end models. I don't buy the BS that they bought it for fuel economy or safety - a Japanese car does both for cheaper. These people are just POOR @$$ POSERS BARELY AFFORDING THE NAME. I read in Automobile Magazine a while ago that while Germans think their cars are the best, they said they really wouldn't want to own one for long term.

[m3_lover]

Nowdays it is nothing but a logo and heritage exploited by small group of people who don't share a bit of Enzo's passion and use his heritage, success and glory as a sticker on their products saying "Buy this - it is Ferrari".

Well, if you have the slightest bit of knowledge about road cars you would know that now Ferrari's are reaching a state of perfection, I could give you a link to a motoring review about one if you don't believe me. Now why would they make the cars so good if they're exploiting the Ferrari image?

Bugger it, i'll give you the link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s64zn1WR ... %20Ferrari

I got one better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3TKkwJx ... %20Gear%20

[Tp]

Very nice. Although isn't that the car Jeremy said he'd rather live with Bird Flu

[jaslfc]

i agree most people buy german cars for the badge.. my dad owns a BMW and my mum has a nissan .. all i can say out of experience..a german car has superior quality and even after 10 years the car still drives better than new japanese cars

[Tp]

All that to say french cars doesn't produce high heart beats like german's, but seem to conform better to modern people worries, which are budget, reliability, and security.

Now this is no joke. My mum bought a Renault Scenic about 6-7months ago brand new, this is her first car brand new. And these are the faults we've had with it:
ABS malfunction
uneven brake wear.
spark plugs failed
Engine Cooling fan fell off
Abnormal wear on suede seats.
Idles erratically
The Brakes squeak, even though they've been replaced
And engine warning light keeps coming on

Then there's build quality, well the Renault doesnt have any, I can actually dismantle the whole car in 30 seconds flat. The plastic used in the interior is so thin you can read through it, the panel gaps are that big I can have a game of Football in between it.

If you want a reliable car buy Japanese, or something German like an Audi. Don't buy any French cars, it'll spend more time in the garage.

[manchild]

lets cut to the chase, here i present car sales in germany: the first five all being german, 65%, with renault in sixth with 6.6%.

edit: sorry about the multiple post, i was too eager

What you wrote only supports what I wrote - Renault is the most imported brand in Germany and since Germans as you said make such quality cars than for sure they know why of all maufacturers in the world they've picked Renault.

BTW, Tp it is pointelss to try to put down whole brand based on some personal experience. Anyone could write that he bought car of the brand he hates and than had pile of problems.

[Ciro Pabón]

What you wrote only supports what I wrote - Renault is the most imported brand in Germany ...

Well, you are not going to believe this: I read "important" instead of "imported". Twice. Not until your last post did I realize my mistake. I bet the same thing happened to pyry.

[pyry]

no, i read imported as imported, what i was trying to say was that i think its pretty irrelevant what the most imported brand is since the vast majority of sold cars is german, and renault being a cheap car that people think is good has ONLY 6. something % of the market. i also think that the "active suspension" on citroens sucks, i have tested many cars including the new c5 with it, its terrible, and very faulty. it starts to make terrible noise, and the electrical work on citroens is a utter catastrophy. it is not uncommon on new cars for the electrics to overload during full breaking(eg. motorway, brakeassist goes off and steering locks). i have two friends who have experienced that. peugeots rust over 70000km, at least in finland. audis, bmws and vw's dont. i could rant on about french cars for hours, but i wont. bottomline: i have driven tens of new cars in the last year, and french cars are the worst in terms of style, engine charachteristics(i dont mean power, i mean the nature, where the torque is) and driveabilty. they are absolutely awful.

[manchild]

Yes they hold only "6 something" percent of the market but BMW also holds 6 something. If you check the figures you'll see that Renault sells approximately 50% of cars sold by domestic best sellers (individually) which is great result for any imported brand in country with such strong automotive industry as German. No one can expect that foreign brand can hold majority of German market.

I won't argue with you about quality of French cars since your comment about French cars fits 100% in this thread since it is 100% ranting.

[pyry]

most people settle for something that looks like a car and costs less then another one. you can indeed get a two litre 4 door car cheaper then another 2 litre four door car, and many people dont care about other charachteristics. i wouldnt be alive had i driven a 407 for instance, due to driving, brakes, maneurerability... and i agree that bmw is overpriced, taking into account its reliability.