Mercedes GP 2011

[FrukostScones]

Nothing against Mercedes in general..., it is a very good company I worked for them when I was studying.
but normally large corporations suck in F1, because too many cooks spoil the broth, look at Mercedes Gp now: who are the cooks: brawn, costa, willis, bell, haug, schumacher, dr. Z and now the AMG-guys
Of course they have the potential, but maybe not the ability to make the right decisions.
I'm fearing that 2012 will be like 2010/11 all over again, late for testing, unfullfilled promises, no time to fix problems, lame excuses etc.
I'd really love to see Rosberg in a competitive car because I think he is one of the best, thereforeI hope Mercedes GP will succeed. Lets see, Christmas is in 3-4 month.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I dint really see much issue with the structure of the team.

Haug is mercedes PR mouth, brawn is the boss... But answers to Stuttgart who have left him to his own devices. Bell is the lead technical director and has Costa as a subordinate engineering director looking into the mechanical side of the car.
Geoff Willis and Loic Bigois head the aerodynamic side of the car.
Bigois struggled the mid during the cut backs made during the brawn year, and Willis is an experienced hand who can assist and direct Bigois to better things.

AMG will have no real input initially, as they have zero f1 experience. Who can say how it will work, with AMG using facilities or the f1 arm using AMG facilities akin to what is happening with red bull and there technology centre? Or will it be a symbiotic relationship?
Time again will tell, but you cannot doubt that at least mercedes are serious about making this work.

If it fails, it would be a valiant fail in my book. But that's just my opinion, and I can understand the disappointments expressed thus far.

[dren]

This is a much better structure than the design by committee that Honda used.

[FrukostScones]

This is a much better structure than the design by committee that Honda used.

I can't see a structure yet, maybe people with more knowledge can draw an organigram please...

As far as I remember the last Honda(BRAWN) won both championchips... Ok it was just the Merc V8 and DD...

[Richard]

Frukost - I'm surprised you hadn't noticed it over the last 110 pages. It is simple:

- Haug does politics with Stuttgart & money men

- Brawn does politics with FIA & other teams

- Bob Bell is TD

- Aldo Costa and Geoff Willis are Bell's deputies with mech and aero expertise.

- Schumacher & Rosberg drive the cars

[Richard]

AMG will have no real input initially, as they have zero f1 experience. Who can say how it will work, with AMG using facilities or the f1 arm using AMG facilities akin to what is happening with red bull and there technology centre? Or will it be a symbiotic relationship?

At the simplest level it is a rebranding of MHPE to AMG. The F1 engines will still come from the same factory and staff at Brixworth.

I guess there could be technology transfer too, with the former MHPE people linking with AMG to develop AMG engines and hyrbids for road cars and DTM.

If Merc are serious about it then they will probably have linked management and budgets with AMG becoming the Mercedes motor sports division. That's when F1/DTM/AMG drive trains become one organisation.

Its a logical conclusion of the new F1 engine rule. You'll see AMG road cars with a hyrbid V6 turbo engine advertised as using the same technology as the F1 cars.... obviously the consumer version will be somewhat different and out of a different factory using less exotic materials and processes, and hopefully better durability!

[FrukostScones]

richard leeds. I was calling for an organigram, because the thread is in parts a bit confusing.. But thanks for the short expl.

[Richard]

Except you and I know that AMG's production line in Affalterbach has little to do with Ilmor in Brixworth.

Really? When was it last ilmor? 6 years ago?

It's a mercedes facility now.

tsk ... you know what I mean. I was exaggerating the differences to illustrate a point.

I still think of Renault as Toleman in disguise.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Spot on and in line with what I think Richard.

Until we see turbos this is just a marketing exercise. But the links will grow in time and eventually be fully blown mercedes AMG.
Reading the sales reports for the last year, I also understand that AMG as a brand can afford F1 without mercedes such is it's profitability at the moment. This is mercedes firing a broadside at Ferrari and McLaren.

The only hitch I see is financial. Will AMG maintain it's currently impeccable record of breaking sales records year on year since being integrated into mercedes? And if not, will the suits stomach the bill?

In all I see this as mercedes launching AMG as it's own entity with it's own identity. We have the SLS and there is also a couple of other AMG developed models in the pipeline(SLC due in 2013 amongst others).

Possibly mercedes had this idea in mind for McLaren. But with the failure of the SLR, differing ethos and the strength of the McLaren brand, it made integration impossible.

Interesting stuff, wonder what AMG have planned...

[wunderkind]

JET,

I think HWA will remain as they are for now. That is, the DTM racing operator and seriously high end bespoke business of Mercedes-AMG. There is genuine desire and capability in HWA to build a totally bespoke supercar to take on the likes of Ferrari and McLaren. But it won't happen in the near future as long as it is not a wholly-owned subsidiary of Mercedes Benz because they will have to be solely responsible for the project's Profit/Loss.

I don't think HWA will compete in the sportscar category because of Mercedes' history. But who knows. Maybe a successful independent HWA team will be a precursor to Mercedes' return to le Mans.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Good post wunderkind

I'm not really too familiar with HWA other than I know its 1 half the creator of AMG, the A in AMG if you like(Hans Werner Aufrecht)
The projects they work on are racing only so far as I'm aware. A skunk works on a very small but efficient scale.
Very shady!

In time and once the big man has passed on, mercedes will probably take full control. But I think the old man likes to do his thing for a while yet, and long may that continue.

[xpensive]

Frukost - I'm surprised you hadn't noticed it over the last 110 pages. It is simple:

- Haug does politics with Stuttgart & money men

- Brawn does politics with FIA & other teams

- Bob Bell is TD

- Aldo Costa and Geoff Willis are Bell's deputies with mech and aero expertise.

- Schumacher & Rosberg drive the cars

Perhaps three and four from top is where certain members, including yours truly, might have their doubts over the simplicity?

[Richard]

x - welcome back, I;ve not seen you for a while.

Even "certain members" have to agree it is a simple arrangement and typical of many F1 teams.

The concern isn't about simplicity, it is that the 3 of the 5 individuals are new, hence 60% are unproven as a team, plus two of them were TD in former roles and their egos couldn't tolerate a perceived demotion.

Do we really have to flog this dead horse again?

You've not aired your thoughts on MHPE becoming AMG.

[atanatizante]

Is the new state of the art simulator doing something with this AMG branding?

[xpensive]

x - welcome back, I;ve not seen you for a while.

Even "certain members" have to agree it is a simple arrangement and typical of many F1 teams.

The concern isn't about simplicity, it is that the 3 of the 5 individuals are new, hence 60% are unproven as a team, plus two of them were TD in former roles and their egos couldn't tolerate a perceived demotion.

Do we really have to flog this dead horse again?

You've not aired your thoughts on MHPE becoming AMG.

Thank you richard. With these particular individuals as "deputies", I believe I'm far from alone fearing the arrangement will not be simple at all. Who said this horse was dead anyway, have you been discussing the matter with WB by any chance?

With regards to AMG, my reflections were in a post from yesterday, perhaps you missed it?