Dan Wheldon Indycar accident - retrospective discussion

[Ray]

I think the price is not an issue compared to the price of a dead driver.

I agree, but unfortunately we aren't the ones who'd have to write the check. They could cut funds from other areas obviously. Cost is a huge factor in this economy, especially in a series that doesn't generate alot of revenue. Indy doesn't draw crowds like NASCAR so the speedways would have to front the money and if they aren't filling seats and selling beer, they won't have the money to do this. I would like to see the poles put on the other side of the fence at the very minimum. How they were put on the track side is just dumb and to be honest, of all the oval racing I've seen over the years I never noticed it was that way.

[hardingfv32]

I think the price is not an issue compared to the price of a dead driver. The polycarbonate layer does not need to cover the whole hight. It would be ok to cover the first 7" and make some trials.

Don't kid yourself, all life has a price limit. Nothing special about a driver unless he is a big fan draw. The current driver loss rate is just fine. No one is legislating against motor racing, the fans are not turning away because of this issue and there are more than enough drivers willing to risk their lives.

Nothing personal, just business.

Brian

[hardingfv32]

How they were put on the track side is just dumb and to be honest, of all the oval racing I've seen over the years I never noticed it was that way.

Where the posts are is not relevant with a chain link fence system as the fencing will always be able to collapse around the poles.

You are saying something is dumb without understanding the how the system works.

Brian

[Ray]

Where the posts are is not relevant with a chain link fence system as the fencing will always be able to collapse around the poles.

You are saying something is dumb without understanding the how the system works.

Brian

Are you serious? Yes, the fencing can collapse around the pole no matter what side it's on. I know that. But having them hanging out in the wind is pretty dumb. Minimize the chance of the blunt hit of the pole by putting them on the other side. The huge cables they have anchoring that fence down keeps deflection of the fence down and the chain link isn't just one layer, there are multiple layers that are smaller than the preceding one. Having the naked pole on the track side of the fence is stupid.

[WhiteBlue]

The current driver loss rate is just fine. No one is legislating against motor racing, the fans are not turning away because of this issue and there are more than enough drivers willing to risk their lives. Nothing personal, just business.

This is your opinion, which seems to be shared by many others and by the IRL. I can't say that it is very responsible or sympathetic. In fact I don't even think it makes good business sense. A comparison between IRL and F1 shows that F1 spends a lot more on driver safety and is highly more successful as a business.

[bhall]

Careful, hardingfv32. That sort of level-headed attitude will get you crucified around here.

To some, it doesn't matter that the IRL's safety record is better than that of the average motorist. They'll go on comparing apples to watermelons and insist that all racers be somehow encapsulated within the loving hands of a deity whose warm embrace will make perfectly safe what was once extremely dangerous. They envision a world where drivers are supported by the wings of angels and on clouds made of hope, with nothing to fear and nothing to doubt as they pilot open-cockpit cars with terrifying levels of horsepower as fast as they possibly can within inches of other drivers doing likewise.

They're the same people who don't understand that safety is nothing but an illusion used to calm the nerves of those who would otherwise be unable to face the grim reality that motor racing will always have potentially lethal consequences.

[WhiteBlue]

=D> =D> =D>

Nice parody bhallG2k! I would rather say that there are different philosophies and both sides can honestly support their point of view.

[wesley123]

-Ignore this, understood it wrong, once again -

[FW17]

4. Can the construction of the cars be improved so that the primary head protection (roll hoop) would not fail in a similar accident.

Where in the report does it state that the roll hoop parted company with the chassis before impact on Weldon's helmet?

I agree with Ray, that they put the poles pointed road side in front of the fence is just stupid. I therefore asume that a monkey designed this or someone with no idea what safety is.

Where is this sticking out in the air???

The current driver loss rate is just fine. No one is legislating against motor racing, the fans are not turning away because of this issue and there are more than enough drivers willing to risk their lives. Nothing personal, just business.

This is your opinion, which seems to be shared by many others and by the IRL. I can't say that it is very responsible or sympathetic. In fact I don't even think it makes good business sense. A comparison between IRL and F1 shows that F1 spends a lot more on driver safety and is highly more successful as a business.

Get off your high horse about F1, WB. The whole world knows not a single line would have changed if only Ronald Ratzenberger had lost his life in Imola 1994.

[hardingfv32]

Are you serious? Yes, the fencing can collapse around the pole no matter what side it's on. I know that. But having them hanging out in the wind is pretty dumb. Minimize the chance of the blunt hit of the pole by putting them on the other side. The huge cables they have anchoring that fence down keeps deflection of the fence down and the chain link isn't just one layer, there are multiple layers that are smaller than the preceding one. Having the naked pole on the track side of the fence is stupid.

Using the above photo, what is to prevent the roll bar/helmet from hitting in between the cables in front of a post and gathering. This gathering could allow the roll bar/helmet to get every close to the post when the gathering is stopped by the post.

What makes you think that the gathering chain link fence is not strong enough to damage the roll bar/helmet even if there is no post in the vicinity?

The fence is just for spectator protection. The driver makes his own luck once he gets to the fence. Weldon went face first into the fence. He could just as easily gone in floor first with minimal harm. It was as simple as flipping a coin.

Brian

[gcdugas]

Here goes the sacrilege....

What is so sacred about open wheels? Their inception was from open wheel road cars but they have moved on and no one misses them. Is it really a big deal if F1 and Indycars looked like LMP1 cars?

As far as closed canopies are concerned... even the latest Audi LMP1 car now has one after the success of the Peugeots. Driver extraction is a two edged sword. If there is a "survival cell" type technology as used in boat racing (where time IS a huge issue due to drowning), then driver extraction is almost moot. I am not against the use of explosives to free the survival cell. Remember, airbags use explosives as do jet fighters (which also employ survival cells). So designing a discharge to free the survival cell is not that great of a challenge.

As to keeping the cars on the ground... flaps can be employed without too much difficulty. An electronic gyroscopicly stabilized sensor could unlock flaps under the floor once the car reached a specified inclined angle.

But again I utter the blasphemy... what is the fixation with open wheels? It used to be anathema for street bikes to have bodywork but now almost all performance orientated bikes have fairings. Open wheels are a relic from the past.

[gcdugas]

Using the above photo, what is to prevent the roll bar/helmet from hitting in between the cables in front of a post and gathering. This gathering could allow the roll bar/helmet to get every close to the post when the gathering is stopped by the post.

What makes you think that the gathering chain link fence is not strong enough to damage the roll bar/helmet even if there is no post in the vicinity?

The fence is just for spectator protection. The driver makes his own luck once he gets to the fence. Weldon went face first into the fence. He could just as easily gone in floor first with minimal harm. It was as simple as flipping a coin.

Brian[/quote]

Clearly a few more horizontal cables will go a long way without reducing spectator visibility and uses existing technology that could be implemented in weeks, not months or years.

[WhiteBlue]

Get off your high horse about F1, WB. The whole world knows not a single line would have changed if only Ronald Ratzenberger had lost his life in Imola 1994.

I'm actually not on a high horse, so there is no point to come off it. This is F1technical and I'm not the only one who uses F1 here as a yard stick. And the guy's name was Roland and not Ronald.

[hardingfv32]

What is so sacred about open wheels? Their inception was from open wheel road cars but they have moved on and no one misses them. Is it really a big deal if F1 and Indycars looked like LMP1 cars?

It is a big deal if you consider how popular LMP1 racing is in the USA.

In the USA there is a strong tradition of open wheel oval racing starting with Midget and Sprint cars. I think it is safe to say that even the drivers would not accept closed wheel cars even if it meant saving a couple lives a year.

In the USA, closed wheel cars would mean competing with NASCAR which is not a viable business model.

Open wheel oval racing is really a very important marketing distinction and tradition in the USA. As with all traditions, you either get it or you don't.

Brian

[gcdugas]

Open wheel oval racing is really a very important marketing distinction and tradition in the USA. As with all traditions, you either get it or you don't.

Brian

B&W film is a tradition. So are vinyl records. Persimmon golf clubs too. But anything that presumes upon itself the crown of "pinnacle" should keep up with the times. It past time to move on.