Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

[Mr.S]

The problem with that Ferraripilot is that the RB5 was the fastest car at the end of 2009.
The DDD stumped it.

Mercedes W03 will not be a clean sheet design. It will carry over some wares of the W02.
The rear suspension on the W02 was quite interesting in detail, shooting down alot of the talk of "they dont know what theyre doing".
This will be carried over onto the W03 I believe, as it was almost the saving grace of the car along with Mercedes KERS and V8.

By extending the car, they can lower the mass. This was a fatal flaw in the W02.
Just by doing this Mercedes will gain time. Brawn didnt anticipate the EBD having such a massive influence in 2011 which is why Mercedes had the SLR style side exhausts that missed the boat.

The problem for Mercedes is they need aero points. This is their biggest shortfall and an area where Willis can have valuable input.
If the W03 arrives with some fancy detailed aero at the second test, we will know for sure where the time has been spent.

What will W02 carry over??? DRS rear-wing,I dont think so as next the exhaust will blow the rear wing & that will be critical in designing the wing.

That dud of a front-wing used in Barcelona pre-season test which is very weak compared to Mclaren's one & will be 1.5 years old from conceptual size during the 1st TEST.

Or the Nose cone??? That dud horribly ugly looking Nose Cone which carries like 0 weight. Ohh wait they have low noses next year.

They will definitely dump these horribly BULKY sidepods which increase COG.

They said they will have a new & "innovative" radiator arrangement with near Rear Suspension.

Then what do the carry over?? Engine,KERS or Turning vanes??

WO3 will be a clean SLATE DESIGN.

[Ferraripilot]

I'm not sure so much of the outside will be retained, but base components and quite a bit of internal packaging will be there if it worked right on W02. I'm sure we will see a MkV verion of their old wing as I am not expecting anything too terribly different with that. Rear wing will be tweaked a bit. Sidepods changed. Nosecone changed. Suspension I am confident they will retain but may change some things at the front. I am particularly interested in the nose cone intake and how much that mightplay into their front wing f-duct design. I'm particularly curious if they are designing the front wing attachments to the nosecone in a rearward rake so to maintain as much nose intake velocity as possible so to blow under the car. The nosecone intake could be a good amount larger as well. With the noses being lower I imagine a goal this year for everyone is going to be how to figure out how to get that lost airflow back. They certainly have a good chunk of wind tunnel time they didn't use in '11 so let's see what sort of tricks they may employ.

So calling it a 'clean sheet' is about as correct as calling the W03 a W02 version 'b'. It will probably be a bit of both. The lineage will be there the same way RB7 looks much like RB6.

[Mr.S]

I'm not sure so much of the outside will be retained, but base components and quite a bit of internal packaging will be there if it worked right on W02. I'm sure we will see a MkV verion of their old wing as I am not expecting anything too terribly different with that. Rear wing will be tweaked a bit. Sidepods changed. Nosecone changed. Suspension I am confident they will retain but may change some things at the front. I am particularly interested in the nose cone intake and how much that mightplay into their front wing f-duct design. I'm particularly curious if they are designing the front wing attachments to the nosecone in a rearward rake so to maintain as much nose intake velocity as possible so to blow under the car. The nosecone intake could be a good amount larger as well. With the noses being lower I imagine a goal this year for everyone is going to be how to figure out how to get that lost airflow back. They certainly have a good chunk of wind tunnel time they didn't use in '11 so let's see what sort of tricks they may employ.

So calling it a 'clean sheet' is about as correct as calling the W03 a W02 version 'b'. It will probably be a bit of both. The lineage will be there the same way RB7 looks much like RB6.

A b version. It is a 100 % clean slate. The packing changes substantially with the new radiator arrangement. Anyways do you actually believe that an updated version of this Front Wing will be used. ROFL. DUde this dud front wing has been out-developed. Ferrari-Sauber-Williams have gone different route & Mclaren-Red Bull with the additional R shape. MKV does not mean necessarily good. Force India are using an obsolete 3 year old wing.

We dont what downforce the car will use,we dont the F-duct,all of it will effect the Front wing. Anyways Sidepods will be completely different,0% common. These bulky sidepods are increasing COG & decreasing wheelbase. Expect lower pods & a longer wheelbase.

The rear suspension will be considerably different as I hear they were working on a very CLEVER new one which was given in details with diagrams in all major websites. With new pods,comes new turniving vanes & new DRS & rear wing to maximise the exhaust flow.

What will be carried over???? NOTHING.

[aleks_ader]

Sorry guys i see there is a lot talking about new radiator arangement? Does anybody have more clear sources? Please! [-o< Thx!

The rear suspension will be considerably different as I hear they were working on a very CLEVER new one which was given in details with diagrams in all major websites. With new pods,comes new turniving vanes & new DRS & rear wing to maximise the exhaust flow.

Do you mean Hydrolink? That sys is nothing new in f1 (1995 Tyrrell 023 now merc)!

[aleks_ader]

And i forgot to add i am pretty sure that the W03 will be dramaticaly changed that previous one W02! That is a fact! Ofcourse that is my opinion!

[marcush.]

todays there is no clean sheet start anymore ,guys and in reality there never was.
You would be dumb or an idiot to start from zero over and over again so the start of your project will logically take over what good things you already have.
Starting of with the powerplant as the central part of yoiur design....
Sure you might want or need to change the exhaust routing or tweak the pump arrangement if necessary (as you found some scope for improvement over the last months maybe?) ,some new harness improvements or a x inspired engine mount but you will always start with your baseline and that is :W02 in its final iteration...

the whole idea of blaming the CofG for the lack of performance is just lacking any evidence.
As we have elaborated in length the one and only thing contributing SIGNIFICANTLY to cofG height AND carrying a degree of freedom is the the fueltank .Mounting of a 10Kg radiator 100mm higher or lower will not have a serious impact on Cof G height of the car ,as these bits are already very close to the CofG height of the whole thing .So even if there was a penalty due to having double count rads with added piping etc still what would you account for in terms of lap time potential reduction? sure not seconds but more like fractions of a second..
The bigger cross section needed for the shorter fuel tank was a bigger issue methinks as this claimed space needed for the rads and on plus will inevitably have a knock on effect blocking flow to the rear wing..
Somehow the car was not too bad in terms of drag as shown by constantly high topspeeds but obviously the team is struggling to find rear downforce without sacrificing all their drag figures.Why else would they still be happy with their old Brawn BGP001 designs still to be found at the front..

[wesley123]

And i forgot to add i am pretty sure that the W03 will be dramaticaly changed that previous one W02! That is a fact! Ofcourse that is my opinion!

So your opinion is a fact? Unless you're God I cannot see how that is possible.

I honestly doubt their car will be that much different. As I have seen from previous years they never learned and they had the same problems over and over again, I can only hope that would be different.

As for what should be, their car definately needs to be longer to house everything in it. The double radiators was a failed concept, in my eyes both radiators were getting far from optimal airflow due to the large structure in between both radiators. Behind that the exit flow wasnt optimal too. To fix this they had to open up the whole rear ruining their incredibly tight packaging.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Suspension carry over is a massive time saving for Mercedes if they do in fact carry it over.
So no it not a clean slate design.

Im interested to see what will happen to the front suspension. Will they revert to a pullrod for example?
From the technical demonstration of what they did on the rear suspension, I believe them to be quite capable to pull out something extravagent. The only fly in the ointment is that Costa will possibly want something more conservative...

...Or he would approve of the design firing a broadside at Ferrari for their decision to sack him for being "too conservative".

[aleks_ader]

And i forgot to add i am pretty sure that the W03 will be dramaticaly changed that previous one W02! That is a fact! Ofcourse that is my opinion!

So your opinion is a fact? Unless you're God I cannot see how that is possible.

Yes i m a Chuck Norris! No sorry i choose the wrong words! He he! LOL how could be my opinion a fact? FAIL

But i still think that from outside the car will be differend!

[xpensive]

I'm certain that the W03 will surprise the world with an ultra-compact rear push-rod suspension, perhaps a wager JET?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I'm certain that the W03 will surprise the world with an ultra-compact rear push-rod suspension, perhaps a wager JET?

Who knows.

All I can say is that the time and money spent on that rear suspension which appeared to actually work will not be thrown away for 2012.
Still not expecting anything more than 4th fastest car with the W03.

[xpensive]

Ambitions as well as xpectations must surely be a little more than I'm certain?

[wesley123]

I would say definitely 4th at best, unless the first 3 somehow c*ck up.

Ferrari, McLaren and Red Bull are miles ahead compared to Mercedes, this is a gap they cannot make up in my eyes. Also on the other hand I wouldnt count out Renault, Force India and Sauber to bring on the fight to Mercedes.

[xpensive]

I'm certain that the W03 will surprise the world with an ultra-compact rear push-rod suspension, perhaps a wager JET?

Who knows.
...

Who knows indeed, when Ferrari's rear push-rod suspension was likely to have been Costa's baby, what if the W03's delay is a result of accommodating his ideas for that department, all in good democracy between the three wise-men?

[Hemsy]

I'm certain that the W03 will surprise the world with an ultra-compact rear push-rod suspension, perhaps a wager JET?

Who knows.
...

Who knows indeed, when Ferrari's rear push-rod suspension was likely to have been Costa's baby, what if the W03's delay is a result of accommodating his ideas for that department, all in good democracy between the three wise-men?

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Merc have a push-rod because the change in exhaust position makes the benefits of a pull-rod less relevant.