Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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Morteza
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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MercAMGF1Fans wrote:Have you seen the way they've restructured the tech team? have you read the article?
Brawn clearly states that :
We chose a short wheelbase because we wanted a nice short area of floor ahead of the diffuser to keep the underfloor airflow consistant
in order to over come the "weakness" of the single diffuser
but they hadn't counted on the "EDB" which left them with the short end of the stick
Image
I understand. But they route they took just led them to another unsuccessful year. Fingers crossed that's not the case for this season :roll:
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

MercAMGF1Fans
MercAMGF1Fans
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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Morteza wrote:
MercAMGF1Fans wrote:Have you seen the way they've restructured the tech team? have you read the article?
Brawn clearly states that :
We chose a short wheelbase because we wanted a nice short area of floor ahead of the diffuser to keep the underfloor airflow consistant
in order to over come the "weakness" of the single diffuser
but they hadn't counted on the "EDB" which left them with the short end of the stick
Image
I understand. But they route they took just led them to another unsuccessful year. Fingers crossed that's not the case for this season :roll:
Exactly.. the gamble didn't payoff.. end of!
Let's hope this TIME it DOES work

marcush.
marcush.
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:What makes you think Mercedes are incapable of innovation Marcush?

If anything I reckon they are capable of it. They MAY have an idea they want to keep for as long as possible. It is a possibility, you cannot discount any team for innovation in F1.

Im of the opinion that Mercedes just want as long a lead time in developing the car as possible. If the car isnt a winning car, and they tested it in the first test, it will remain a non winning car come the first race.
So Mercedes have hedged their bets and have given the W03 an extra weeks gestation period. If you are trailing your competitiors I would say that this is the default action of choice, if you are serious about winning.

I would even go further and delay the car until the very last test, and use the first GP as a simulation model then go from there. If what was said was true, that 0.050 seconds is found in aero every week, then your car will have 4 weeks bonus time, with a test to verify.

Its a gamble of course, but Mercedes need to gamble to cut the deficit. The W02 was in fact a brave gamble that failed to pay off. The W03 will have more resources but still needs some brave ideas to push them forward.
jet ,that was NOT what I have claimed.Indeed Mercedes has build the different car a few years in a row now and they have come up with new ideas in several areas.My claim is they have not really found WHERE the f...g second is they lag behind since end of 2009...Fact is they had reduced in size from a BIG team to something considerably smaller and in retrospective they juist had not the competence inhouse to value and channel new ideas and necessary developments.They still acted as a big team but that is just not efficient for a smaller outfit and so they developped into dead alleys methinks or took bold decisions not based on all the facts -development shortcuts or whatever...
Now back to a comparable headcount I think more will get done and even if their hit rate is not improving they will close the gap considerably.
But maybe they have learned even more than we can imagine in these two years and can implement all lesson learned + their added workforce to something really good.
I just have the opinion that launching your car has no advantage to them ,it´s born out of some findings that led to a major redesign and that could be worrying or a sign of something REALLY special that will make such a big impact it is worth being late ...if it´s something like the BGP001 advantage i´m ok with it.

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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But I can already see the posts berating the team because they have 4th fastest car.
Rome was built in a day.

I still expect 4th fastest, but they should be closer to the top 3.
More could have been done.
David Purley

Ozan
Ozan
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:But I can already see the posts berating the team because they have 4th fastest car.
Rome was built in a day.

I still expect 4th fastest, but they should be closer to the top 3.

Agree with you, the team has already had the 4th fastest car in general, the top three fastest car in straights. they should be competitive to get some podiums because of Bell,Willis and Costa's contributions.

marcush.
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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honestly i expect them to be third or better ,as they have it all now plus the best driver pairing (well not counting Button and Hamilton who are as strong).
I expect fireworks,good or bad.

aral
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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marcush. wrote:honestly i expect them to be third or better ,as they have it all now plus the best driver pairing (well not counting Button and Hamilton who are as strong).
I expect fireworks,good or bad.
Same old..., Same old.... and which team do you believe that they will beat next year? Don''t forget, in 2010, Merc claimed they would be fighting for the WCC and WDC. result?...nothing. In 2011, Merc said they would be fighting for the WCC and WDC. Result?....nothing.

What makes you think that 2012 will be any different? Wait, this time Merc have said that they will NOT be fighting for the WCC and WDC.

Nobody knows which team will have an edge this year, despite all the wonderful design theories here. So why not wait until first testing to see if anyone has stolen a march?

Ozan
Ozan
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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Friends, what do you think of "low nose" like W01's ? do you think we can see it on w03 ?

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aleks_ader
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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Ozan wrote:Friends, what do you think of "low nose" like W01's ? do you think we can see it on w03 ?
No! The mearsurments are not so low to force engineers to radical low nose!
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

marcush.
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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frankly speaking only RedBull had what was needed to win the championship in the last two years and Ferrari has struggled to hit the ground running every season for years now .same goes for Mclaren who also did wonders in developing their machinery in season .
to me the day will come when one or more of the top teams will NOT be in a position to correct what went wrong over winter and will fail to close the gap as was the case for Mercedes the second year in a row.
I cannot imagine Mclaren ,Ferrari and RedBull knowing so much more they can guarantee their concept to be within striking distance to the best product.Now Mercedes has a lot of fresh blood into their system and their workforce is as strong as the other three top teams.No reason to think they could not match those..
You would prefer to have neweys ideas ,but is he really the guy you want to lead your R+D? It works for RBT no doubt about it..but will it be possible to keep an advantage? Newey always maintains that big changes in rules work into his hands .I´d say the current set of rules is well understood and RedBull chose to refine their concept for three years and Mclaren were so damn close already..only for Hamiltons weak season in my view RedBull won ..Webber just won a single race...
Newey has to come up with something really new now...which can go wrong.

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N12ck
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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marcush. wrote:frankly speaking only RedBull had what was needed to win the championship in the last two years and Ferrari has struggled to hit the ground running every season for years now .same goes for Mclaren who also did wonders in developing their machinery in season .
to me the day will come when one or more of the top teams will NOT be in a position to correct what went wrong over winter and will fail to close the gap as was the case for Mercedes the second year in a row.
I cannot imagine Mclaren ,Ferrari and RedBull knowing so much more they can guarantee their concept to be within striking distance to the best product.Now Mercedes has a lot of fresh blood into their system and their workforce is as strong as the other three top teams.No reason to think they could not match those..
You would prefer to have neweys ideas ,but is he really the guy you want to lead your R+D? It works for RBT no doubt about it..but will it be possible to keep an advantage? Newey always maintains that big changes in rules work into his hands .I´d say the current set of rules is well understood and RedBull chose to refine their concept for three years and Mclaren were so damn close already..only for Hamiltons weak season in my view RedBull won ..Webber just won a single race...
Newey has to come up with something really new now...which can go wrong.
as newey said, the RB8 will be a development of RB7 (not much development potential left, so I cant see them being the fastest team, the MP4-26 Was a whole new concept, and they were almost the fastest car, so imagine the development potential in that car, Merc have to come up with a new concept in the new season and as Mclaren shown new concepts can be very fast (MP4-26) I dont believe Red Bull will be the team to beat, I believe they will be second fastest behind Mclaren, and I believe Mercedes will be on par with Ferrari, I think Mercedes will be up there among Ferrari, Red Bull and McLaren
Budding F1 Engineer

marcush.
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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Newey has maintained there was no single reason for them having an advanatge -they really just tried to get rid of all weaknesses without compromising the overall concept of their car.
In2011 RedBull really did not have any significant speedadvantage but they scored immensely by finishing races and not having weak races! That really is a maxed out end of development cycle concept and new ideas are needed .
Both Mclaren and to a lesser degree ferrari had enough potential to beat them ,admittedly Mercedes did not.But I see no reason why Merc should be less than MCL or the red ones in 2012.

xpensive
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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My fear is still that the hopes will by way to high of a "quick-fix", suddenly hiring not one but three technical directors, although with slightly different titles gives me a feeling of desperation, trying too hard perhaps?

It also gives me serious doubts over RB's management abilities, when he obviosly though he had no need for a technical director, letting Zander go witout hiring a replacement, now he thinks he needs three to get the job done?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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dren
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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The Red Bull has been the best car the last two years. I see no reason for things to change. I think it'll be closer up at the front with more than three teams winning races. I also expect Mercedes to be in the mix rather than a distant 4th. Where is Lotus going to be?
Honda!

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dren
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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xpensive wrote:My fear is still that the hopes will by way to high of a "quick-fix", suddenly hiring not one but three technical directors, although with slightly different titles gives me a feeling of desperation, trying too hard perhaps?

It also gives me serious doubts over RB's management abilities, when he obviosly though he had no need for a technical director, letting Zander go witout hiring a replacement, now he thinks he needs three to get the job done?
Taken from Wikipedia:

This is for the W01
Thomas Fuhr (Managing Director) - now Ross? Bell?
Kevin Taylor (Chief Designer) - now Bell?
Loïc Bigois (Head of Aerodynamics) - now Willis
Craig Wilson (Head of Vehicle Engineering & Dynamics) - now Costa

Looking at that list, it looks like people are just being replaced and job titles changed.
Last edited by dren on 09 Jan 2012, 21:09, edited 1 time in total.
Honda!