Lotus E20 Renault

[Jersey Tom]

Still.. why not just use anti-dive in your front geometry?

[aleks_ader]

Hmm i m wonder to know how to achieve a same efect on aceleleration? To maintain same ride hight?

Alison sad...

system can be used in reverse under acceleration, to reduce the amount of lift in the nose and keep the front wing aerodynamics optimised.

[NonNewtonic]

Latest news from the factory: It was said that the R32 will feature a radical brake system which allow team to adjust the aerodynamic of the car by adjusting the ride height

[raymondu999]

Latest news from the factory: It was said that the R32 will feature a radical brake system which allow team to adjust the aerodynamic of the car by adjusting the ride height

Yup; that's what we've been discussing for the last page

[NonNewtonic]

Hopefully it could set a trend for others to copy and according to Autosport Renault had been working on it since 2009 so it makes me think that its a concept that is very difficult to be copied

[Huntresa]

The way James Allan describes the system it could well be banned under §3.15 as a device that changes the aero config of the car. It will be interesting to lisen to the argument.

Lotus or Renault have been working closely with the FIA on this device, so thats it is 100% legal(check the link)

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96952

[PlatinumZealot]

Curious why they wouldn't use geometric anti-dive to reduce loss of front ride height under the brakes.

Because the carbon flextures are not as tough as metal I would think. Imagine jacking tons of force of dive into your flextures every lap. what do you think?

[ESPImperium]

Looks like Brake Reactive Damping (Ill call it BRD for short) is legal as its an independant system to what the driver has access to, like the Mercedes AMG F1 W03s rumored front wing F Duct.

Its more or less the same system that Honda Motorcycles used on the CBRs in the eighties Scarbs has said on Twitter.

[aleks_ader]

Instead it is reactive to brake torque and is linked directly to the suspension - so cannot be classified as a moveable aerodynamic device in the way that independent mass dampers were.

Sounds like hydro dampers, but how actually works? I suspect that is not like hydrolink? Directly force inpud, but around brakes? maybe is that second piston in the brakes yaws some caint trigger and is connected with suspention arm piston?

[dren]

The caliper is linked directly to the suspension. It isn't fully ridged to the hub. The bolts probably ride in slots, allowing the caliper to move slightly. When you brake, the torque forces the caliper against the suspension system, opposing the car's tendency to dive when braking. This is what Renault is doing and what the Honda anti-dive system (TRAC) does.

[PlatinumZealot]

The caliper is linked directly to the suspension. It isn't fully ridged to the hub. The bolts probably ride in slots, allowing the caliper to move slightly. When you brake, the torque forces the caliper against the suspension system, opposing the car's tendency to dive when braking. This is what Renault is doing and what the Honda anti-dive system (TRAC) does.

A moving caliper would be too risky IMO.. I think there is a simple hydraulic piston that reacts to pressure of the brake fluid inside the caliper. As the pressure increases the piston moves hydraulic fluid that is in a second circuit that is connected to another hydraulic cylinder in the upright.

The unit likely has:
A check valve - to stop the car from braking while the suspension compresses.

A damper built in - to dampen vibrations.

A thermocouple activated valve? As the brakes come up to temperature the circuit is open.

Here are my thoughts in a picture..

[aral]

The ride height adjusting system has been formally declared legal by the FIA.

Another leading team has already submitted their design to FIA for approval.

Will it work? Who knows. It may be another failure like the FEE was last year.

[dren]

The caliper is linked directly to the suspension. It isn't fully ridged to the hub. The bolts probably ride in slots, allowing the caliper to move slightly. When you brake, the torque forces the caliper against the suspension system, opposing the car's tendency to dive when braking. This is what Renault is doing and what the Honda anti-dive system (TRAC) does.

A moving caliper would be too risky IMO.. I think there is a simple hydraulic piston that reacts to pressure of the brake fluid inside the caliper. As the pressure increases the piston moves hydraulic fluid that is in a second circuit that is connected to another hydraulic cylinder in the upright.

The unit likely has:
A check valve - to stop the car from braking while the suspension compresses.

A damper built in - to dampen vibrations.

A thermocouple activated valve? As the brakes come up to temperature the circuit is open.

It may not be the actual caliper moving, but the rotating energy in the rotor is being transfered into a force that opposes the dive under braking.

I think linking the hydraulic braking system in the way you have pictured would be illegal because simply by pressing the brake an opposing force would be given directly into the suspension link. That is completely driver controlled. The system I mentioned would work only when the car is moving, somewhat separated by driver input.

The Honda system used the rotating torque and transfered it into an opposing force for the anti dive they used on their motorcycles. I think the Renault system is similar.

[aleks_ader]

It may not be the actual caliper moving, but the rotating energy in the rotor is being transfered into a force that opposes the dive under braking.

I think linking the hydraulic braking system in the way you have pictured would be illegal because simply by pressing the brake an opposing force would be given directly into the suspension link. That is completely driver controlled. The system I mentioned would work only when the car is moving, somewhat separated by driver input.

The Honda system used the rotating torque and transfered it into an opposing force for the anti dive they used on their motorcycles. I think the Renault system is similar.

Now fluid inerter make the sense! This systems are connected?

[PlatinumZealot]

The caliper is linked directly to the suspension. It isn't fully ridged to the hub. The bolts probably ride in slots, allowing the caliper to move slightly. When you brake, the torque forces the caliper against the suspension system, opposing the car's tendency to dive when braking. This is what Renault is doing and what the Honda anti-dive system (TRAC) does.

A moving caliper would be too risky IMO.. I think there is a simple hydraulic piston that reacts to pressure of the brake fluid inside the caliper. As the pressure increases the piston moves hydraulic fluid that is in a second circuit that is connected to another hydraulic cylinder in the upright.

The unit likely has:
A check valve - to stop the car from braking while the suspension compresses.

A damper built in - to dampen vibrations.

A thermocouple activated valve? As the brakes come up to temperature the circuit is open.

It may not be the actual caliper moving, but the rotating energy in the rotor is being transfered into a force that opposes the dive under braking.

I think linking the hydraulic braking system in the way you have pictured would be illegal because simply by pressing the brake an opposing force would be given directly into the suspension link. That is completely driver controlled. The system I mentioned would work only when the car is moving, somewhat separated by driver input.

The Honda system used the rotating torque and transfered it into an opposing force for the anti dive they used on their motorcycles. I think the Renault system is similar.

Yes the honda system will work. (I did a small design similar to that in back in University to measure braking power).

In my design proposed above the fluid for the device is in a second circuit as I said. The pressure only builds once the caliper clamps the brake disks. So it is only a reaction to the brake disks and not directly to the driver.

It will still work as the clamping force is proportional to the braking torque. The downside is, if the car is not moving my proposed system will still activate but it is a moot point because there is no aerodynamics when the car is not moving.

I didn't say Renault were definitely using it, I was just thinking that there could be using it.. haha Yeah the honda system sounds like it can work... so post some pictures for us.