Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

[dren]

Any speculation on how much of a gain the front F-me-duct will net?

On a track like Monza, you should be able to run a lower ride height netting better diffuser performance. The front wing should cut downforce fairly early since there are not many fast speed corners that it would be needed for.

I wonder what kind of drag penalty you would get; or do you lose drag at the front?

How much does a car squat at top speed due to downforce when compared to resting position?

Also, did the W01 actually have a passive f-me-duct at any point? I know it was driver activated for a while.

[Raptor22]

I'm not sure how much truth there is in this front wing f-me-duct.

Is loosing drag off the front wing that big a gain? Considering how important the Front wing is too the airflow to the rest of the car, the detached flow is going to have to do some thing special to not break up the flow under the car and over the splitter which could potentially influence safety if the car becomes unstable due to aerodynamic forces.

I wonder if its not a distracting tactic to get rival teams to focus their energy of researching the avenue only to find a dead end.

then again if the wing only stallsan element or par of the span then it could be interesting to see the effects in CFD

[dren]

I'm not sure how much truth there is in this front wing f-me-duct.

Is loosing drag off the front wing that big a gain? Considering how important the Front wing is too the airflow to the rest of the car, the detached flow is going to have to do some thing special to not break up the flow under the car and over the splitter which could potentially influence safety if the car becomes unstable due to aerodynamic forces.

I wonder if its not a distracting tactic to get rival teams to focus their energy of researching the avenue only to find a dead end.

then again if the wing only stallsan element or par of the span then it could be interesting to see the effects in CFD

I think the main idea, as pointed out by Scarbs, is that stalling the front wing at high speeds dumps the downforce, so the initial ride height can be lower; it doesn't have to compensate for high speed downforce pushing the car lower.

Similar in idea to the Lotus/Renault anti-dive suspension, but this acts against the downforce when the car is moving.

I am curious how much flow behind the wing will be screwed up when you stall it. Will the balance elsewhere be upset a lot?

[Raptor22]

I understood that but theres still the big influence of turbulent wake behind the front wing due to it being stalled.
I'm not disputing the set up advantage.

Ok the stalled section of win is likely to only be the outboard donforce producing section but how does that wake influence the flow over the rest of the wing and how does that impact on the flow goin under and over the splitter?

Does ot work as intended or can it create a dangerous situation.

then lastly, if they are using a valve can it be argued t be a movable aerodynaic device and therefore illegal?

[scarbs]

A litle bird told me the f-duct front wing, might not make onto the car next year. It was a solution for a specific problem, this problem seem to be there any more. Its also said the drivers didnt like the effect it had on the handling.

[dren]

They would have to have a fluidic switch. Maybe you could blow the wing to help flow and then at a certain speed, the pressure from another intake would switch where the wing is blown and stall it.

But it would be hard to tune. What if you are in a high speed corner and a gust of wind hits you head on. It could stall the wing and cause massive understeer.

[dren]

A litle bird told me the f-duct front wing, might not make onto the car next year. It was a solution for a specific problem, this problem seem to be there any more. Its also said the drivers didnt like the effect it had on the handling.

Ahh, thanks for that info. Any other insight into what we might expect on the car? Is the hydraulic suspension making a return?

[Raptor22]

A litle bird told me the f-duct front wing, might not make onto the car next year. It was a solution for a specific problem, this problem seem to be there any more. Its also said the drivers didnt like the effect it had on the handling.

Yes, snapping from under to over steer mid may through Parabolica is enough to make anyman soil himself...

I would subscribe to the view it won't make it onto the car.
Stalling a rear wing is one thing, but stalling the front is asking for trouble that can cause bodily harm. Flow disruption to the underbelly of the car could make for a few nasty surprises for the drivers.

[Ferraripilot]

A litle bird told me the f-duct front wing, might not make onto the car next year. It was a solution for a specific problem, this problem seem to be there any more. Its also said the drivers didnt like the effect it had on the handling.

Yes, snapping from under to over steer mid may through Parabolica is enough to make anyman soil himself...

I would subscribe to the view it won't make it onto the car.
Stalling a rear wing is one thing, but stalling the front is asking for trouble that can cause bodily harm. Flow disruption to the underbelly of the car could make for a few nasty surprises for the drivers.

I would think they could change the 'when' factor of the front wing stalling with different venturis in the front wing uprights essentially working the same as a carburetor pulling in air for air/fuel metering. A larger carburetor venturi allows for better response at higher airflow while less at low airflow. Things such as cams and compression obviously have an effect too but I am speaking in generalities regarding the front wing stall issue.

[Raptor22]

the when factor is important but the event itself can be quite disturbing to the car whether travelling in a straight line or through a high speed corner.

softening the airflow change to the floor of the car would be a focus area in design I assume but how much can they really control it without active systems?

From Scarbs feedbackit appears that they may feel its a safety issue and I tend to agree with that.

[xpensive]

I can't believe this, do you seriously think that MGP/AMG would yet again pin their hopes to that magic bullet?

Naah, I xpect the W03 to take the safe and conventional route to the podium.

Really?

[dren]

I don't think the W03 will have a much longer wheel base compared to the W02. I expect a slightly elongated better developed W02 with a new nose.

[Coefficient]

Rather than a stalling device, could there not be another purpose for the air flowing into the nose, down through the wing pylons and then exiting somewhere around the main plane? For example, could the trailing edge of the main plane be designed to exhaust the airflow at high pressure either side of the mandated central wing section in order to create a sealing effect for airflow over the central section of wing to the bib splitter so that turbulent air from around the front wheel assembly/tyres could not bleed into the flow over the central section of wing therefore offering cleaner air to the front of the floor?

[raymondu999]

A litle bird told me the f-duct front wing, might not make onto the car next year. It was a solution for a specific problem, this problem seem to be there any more. Its also said the drivers didnt like the effect it had on the handling.

Wouldn't be SAM Bird would it?

[Ferraripilot]

Rather than a stalling device, could there not be another purpose for the air flowing into the nose, down through the wing pylons and then exiting somewhere around the main plane? For example, could the trailing edge of the main plane be designed to exhaust the airflow at high pressure either side of the mandated central wing section in order to create a sealing effect for airflow over the central section of wing to the bib splitter so that turbulent air from around the front wheel assembly/tyres could not bleed into the flow over the central section of wing therefore offering cleaner air to the front of the floor?

I see where you're going with this but I believe what you're outlining is overcomplicated to what the design was intended for, but possible. The tricky part of this technology is that many tracks would require different versions of this wing with different diameters inside the pylons which would affect at what pressure the wing would stall. Obviously a Monza spec wing would be set up in a 'high stall' setting while Monaco would be very low still if none at all.

The idea behind it is wonderful though: run more rake on the front wing full-knowing at a certain speed the front wing will essentially lose 15-20% of its effectiveness allowing for greater in-line speed. The trick will be tuning the thing to know precisely when you want it to stall. One could roughly postulate that the wing stall should be tuned for 15mph above the highest speed reached at the quickest corner on the track. So if it's a 125mph corner, tune the wing stall above 140mph. It's difficult tuning a switch when in essence there is no switch, but a venturi type device in a 90 degree mounted pylon! Difficult technology.