Red Bull RB8 Renault (pre-launch speculation)

[beelsebob]

I was thinking, could the exhausts blow the beam wing??? If so id recon thats where Newey will be trying to blow this year.

Just as you can see in the diagram above... But...

Surely you would want to energise the air under the beam wing, not over it. As far as I can see they'll all be aiming at making the rear wing main plane work more efficiently.

[munudeges]

Indeed they can. I think you'll find that the exhaust can be positioned a little lower in relation to the rear wheel than that.

Blowing the rear wing, either top or beam, sounds like the most logical direction to go in if you think about things purely in terms of blowing elements of your car, but if you really understand the aerodynamics at the back of your car blowing around the brake duct fin area could be very productive because you can get downforce acting more directly on the wheel.

Extremely difficult to pull off, but given Red Bull's direction over the past couple of years and the understanding they obviously have in that area blowing the rear wing strikes me as a little to basic and quite a weak alternative.

[beelsebob]

Indeed they can. I think you'll find that the exhaust can be positioned a little lower in relation to the rear wheel than that.

Nope, that's a 355mm rear wheel, and the exhaust positioned as low as it's possible to put it.

Note – the rear wheel would actually have to be smaller than that normally, as it needs to still be under 355mm when they put wet tyres on.

[allstaruk08]

so your say both this


and scarbs diagram are wrong??

[munudeges]

I hate to reproduce Scarbs's diagrams, but this is what we're looking at:

[beelsebob]

You're welcome to measure the distances in my diagram, but it's drawn to scale.

For reference – on scarbs's diagram, the bottom of the exhaust box is level with the rear wheel centre line – i.e. at most 177.5mm above the ground.

Rule 5.8.3, section b, specifies 250mm above the reference plane. The reference plane is at minimum 80mm above the ground when stationary, so there's no way that's to scale.

[beelsebob]

Ah, I've spotted my error, the wheel diameter is 660mm at most, not 355:



As you can see, it's still to high to aim at the break ducts, and this still doesn't cover that you don't want 800°C gasses flowing into the break area.

[munudeges]

It's still entirely feasible to blow in the brake duct vane areas that are allowed come inboard by 120mm as Scarbs postulates. You don't want them pointing in the area of brake cooling, obviously, but generating an aerodynamic effect on them and getting downforce more directly on to the wheel is going to be far more productive if you can pull it off.

I can see rather a lot of protests coming Red Bull's way. It's probably wise that they're not showing anything until as late as possible.

[allstaruk08]

i didnt mean blow into the brake ducts i said feed the ducts from the bottom, it would blow the aero pieces on the brake ducts and im sure they could put heat protection material on the cover of the duct to minimise increased air temp going in to cool the brakes

[Intego]

Is it possible to blow in a duct in or near the brake ducts and then route the exhaust gases down to the (edge of the) diffusor?

[beelsebob]

Is it possible to blow in a duct in or near the brake ducts and then route the exhaust gases down to the (edge of the) diffusor?

Hah, kinky idea! I wonder if it could be done without loosing too much downforce from the winglets on the wheels.

[raymondu999]

That's an interesting one. Scarbs has already suggested blowing the exhausts directly onto the brake duct winglets directly. Between that and creating an air curtain to help seal the diffuser surely one has to give better net gains... the question is which.

[gridwalker]

I will look forwards to many more thermal stress induced break/wheel/upright/tyre failures throughout 2012 ...

[munudeges]

You'd need to seriously know what you're doing aerodynamically to pull this off though which is why I can only see Red Bull attempting it, and yes, it could be that they would look to get a cunning secondary or tertiary effect on the diffuser from doing this.

I just can't see Red Bull or Newey's people taking the easy way out and saying "Oh well, we can't do that any more so let's just blow the rear wing".

[ringo]

whatever they are blowing it will be copied easily.
Outside of brake ducts and beam wing, there's nothing else to blow; unless bodywork which has never been seen before is introduced on the car.
Bodywork which still fit in the regulated areas of course.