Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

[hardingfv32]

Not sure how many more time I have to repeat myself

No need to repeat, it is not on point. Simply explain where my logic is wrong.

1) There are no effects that do not change the wheel loads. Can you think of any? Thus there is no necessity for 10.1.2.

2) The important distinction is how the flow path of the force being discussed. In the case of aero drag from the wings, drag is routed from the wings to the chassis and then the suspension. The suspension is not 'directly' effected by drag. 10.1.2 is concerned with forces that originate at the wheels and flow directly to the suspension.

This interpretation allows current systems but still represents a valid restriction. Your interpretation of 10.1.2 does not represent any restriction, which questions the necessity of this section.

Brian

[Raptor22]

Not sure how many more time I have to repeat myself

No need to repeat, it is not on point. Simply explain where my logic is wrong.

1) There are no effects that do not change the wheel loads. Can you think of any? Thus there is no necessity for 10.1.2.

2) The important distinction is how the flow path of the force being discussed. In the case of aero drag from the wings, drag is routed from the wings to the chassis and then the suspension. The suspension is not 'directly' effected by drag. 10.1.2 is concerned with forces that originate at the wheels and flow directly to the suspension.

This interpretation allows current systems but still represents a valid restriction. Your interpretation of 10.1.2 does not represent any restriction, which questions the necessity of this section.

Brian

Load at the wheels equals vertical load + horizontal load.
Vertical loads = mass of the car + downforce produced + couple of Drag components at CoP to the CoG.
Horizontal loads at the wheels = friction force due to vertical loads + rolling resistance.

where rolling resistance accounts for camber an castor effects as well as suspension damping effects.

Newtone 3rd law, ever action has an equal and opposite reaction.


the weight (incl drag couple) of car at specific speed must equal reaction at the tyres contact patch.

There is where your logic is flawed. You are trying to dissolve Newton.
all a suspension does is add friction into the sytem to prevent simple harmonic motion as a result of the load applied to the car through the forces acting upon it.
Newton says those forces have to be in balance in our universe unless matter is being created or destroyed in the process.

are you smarter than Isaac?

[hardingfv32]

[Load at the wheels....are you smarter than Isaac?

Your personal challenge is to make a statement that is relevant to my post. Calm down and you probably can do it.

1) There are no effects that do not change the wheel loads. Can you think of any? Thus there is no necessity for 10.1.2.

2) The important distinction is how the flow path of the force being discussed. In the case of aero drag from the wings, drag is routed from the wings to the chassis and then the suspension. The suspension is not 'directly' effected by drag. 10.1.2 is concerned with forces that originate at the wheels and flow directly to the suspension.

This interpretation allows current systems but still represents a valid restriction. Your interpretation of 10.1.2 does not represent any restriction, which questions the necessity of this section.

Brian

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

At the risk of echoing earlier sentiments, would it not be best if you guys created a new thread and debated it there?
I have followed intently, but am now thinking its time this baby grew legs and had its own thread.

[retpog55]

Everyone will surely know this already but running order for 1st testing starting tommorow....

Tuesday: Rosberg Morning session, Schumacher Afternoon session.

Wednesday: Schumacher all day.

Thursday: Rosberg all day.

Friday: Not taking part.

(cant wait )

[pocketmoon]

Everyone will surely know this already but running order for 1st testing starting tommorow.... (cant wait )

Of course it will be with last years car running on this years tyres only :/

Mind you last years car is probably better suited to this years rules!

I still think/hope that Mercedes AMG have something game-changing that they want to keep under wraps for as long as possible

[Schulteiss]

Everyone will surely know this already but running order for 1st testing starting tommorow.... (cant wait )

Of course it will be with last years car running on this years tyres only :/

Mind you last years car is probably better suited to this years rules!

I still think/hope that Mercedes AMG have something game-changing that they want to keep under wraps for as long as possible

They haven't. They have said so more than once. I believe them. It is more important now to have a car that is fundamentally correct, has no design flaws, well balanced for both drivers, speedwise within striking distance of podiums.

[Mr.S]

If that was the case they should have debuted their new car straight away. Unless they have Something really amazing a delay is a Blunder. 4 Days of running is massive. That is 33% of Pre-Season Testing.

With 5000-6000 Kms of more running the other cars would find their sweet spot & a proper set-up for different degradation level & fuel loads much earlier & better than W02.

4 Days of Pre-season Testing is like 9-10 Race Week-ends which is like Half the RUNNING of a full Formula 1 Season. I am still hoping for a Front Wing F-duct or RRH

[retpog55]

Of course it will be with last years car running on this years tyres only :/

I know, i'm just desperate for any F1 action in any shape or form to be honest. Going to have to hurry up and get my sports subscription sorted out aswell after the beeb have let me down big style......

Mercedes did mention they will be testing out the new tyres during the first test week aswell as trying some new parts on the old car.

What new parts do you think Mercedes will be or could be realistically testing on the W02 anyone?

[retpog55]

4 Days of Pre-season Testing is like 9-10 Race Week-ends which is like Half the RUNNING of a full Formula 1 Season. I am still hoping for a Front Wing F-duct or RRH

....fair points. Also why no testing for Merc on Friday in any shape or form??

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

+1 schulteiss

No magic to be expected.
There is much change going on the way this team is approaching F1, expect more in 2013 but 2012 will be another year chasing RB Ferrari and McLaren.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

What new parts do you think Mercedes will be or could be realistically testing on the W02 anyone?

exhaust positioning and tyre data.

All this is fed into the simulator for back to back analysis. The major plus of this is that the team have 40,000 kms worth of data on the W02.
By using the exhaust positioned to 2012 spec on 2012 spec rubber, they can directly translate numbers into their simulator for comparison.

This gives you a number of benefits. Firstly you can corroborate you simulator(new and up and running fully now for Mercedes).
Secondly any surprise regards the tyres will stand out far more starkly. With a new car, its trial and error to ascertain where the faults lie.
Thirdly you can directly compare where the loses of EBD have affected you and by how much.
Fourth, you can use the time in between the tests (10th of Feb to 21st Feb) to fully optimise your car to what all the information gathering has shown.

People have focused too much on the pitfalls. Thats not to say they are wrong, but there are 2 sides to every coin.

[Raptor22]

you will also likely know how good your base design for the W0 was in relation to other cars without an EBD.
Lastsyears concept fits closer to 2012 rules as someone mentioned.

I don't see a disadvantage to testing W02 at the first test. the engine is the same as last year. the gearbox may be new butit will have been run on thebench for a while by now so its not an unknown entity.
So by Thursday Merc should knowif they were really 1sec off the pace if they were actually closer if measured against noon EBD cars

[Ferraripilot]

I don't see a disadvantage to testing W02 at the first test. the engine is the same as last year. the gearbox may be new butit will have been run on thebench for a while by now so its not an unknown entity.
So by Thursday Merc should knowif they were really 1sec off the pace if they were actually closer if measured against noon EBD cars

+1 agreed. The EBD and those who were able to make good use of it (no one as much as RB) will really show some color vs W02 which is a car we and they already know a good amount regarding. If MB is shooting for another half second with W03 over W02 then that would definitely launch them into a new category of racing. I'm just not seeing how RB8, MP4-27, F2012 are any quicker than their predecessors unless I am missing something very key which has yet to show itself

[Ferraripilot]

I don't see a disadvantage to testing W02 at the first test. the engine is the same as last year. the gearbox may be new butit will have been run on thebench for a while by now so its not an unknown entity.
So by Thursday Merc should knowif they were really 1sec off the pace if they were actually closer if measured against noon EBD cars

+1 agreed. The EBD and those who were able to make good use of it (no one as much as RB) will really show some color vs W02 which is a car we and they already know a good amount regarding. If MB is shooting for another half second with W03 over W02 then that would definitely launch them into a new category of racing. I'm just not seeing how RB8, MP4-27, F2012 are any quicker than their predecessors unless I am missing something very key which has yet to show itself