Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

[Ferraripilot]

Bravo Gato. Great post

[Ferraripilot]

what is this pic from? someone saying it's a livery sneak peak. Looks like an old Honda sidepod bit?


http://twitpic.com/8gkeqr

[ESPImperium]

Thats the 2005 BAR honda.

[hardingfv32]

gato azul

1) The springs and shocks are part of the suspension and as such are responding to 'changes in loads applied to the wheels'.

2) Your compass idea system has mass, therefore it effects the wheel loads. Thus, under your interpetation, the compass system is legal under 10.1.2.

3)

and if you keep in mind what DaveW had to tell us:

The "g-sensitive" dampers are an interesting topic. I say they have never been challenge, and if they were they would be illegal. If you are an active racer, you would be aware that this is not an uncommon situation.

4)

Does it crossed your mind, that rules are perhaps written, to exclude any undesired future developments, that can´t be foreseen at the time, that the rules where written?

If you go back a couple of weeks you will find that I already made that statement. If you want to 'Tap Out" from the challenge because you are unable to think of anything, I will understand. But you are admitting my statement is correct at this point in time: 'There is no effect that does not change the load at the wheels.' THUS rendering 10.1.2 unnecessary.

Brian

[PlatinumZealot]

Not in particular, but I´m sure, they are affected by changes in temperature as well, and not only by changing wheel loads.
Otherwise, why would people feel compelled to write whole articles on this very subject?
TEMPERATURE EFFECTS ON THE DAMPER

How about springs?
According to this graphic, spring rate will change between 3-5% if the temperature raises from ~20 - ~150°C, while load remains constant.

Feel like a champ?

Do you know how gradual a temperature change is on a given day? Even if you were to use the exhuast to heat the springs somehow. (Imagine how long that would take to cool!)

Do a vibration analysis and see what you consider a response . FIA are taking about response as in milliseconds to seconds range. You flick a switch and you see the change. Were aren't talking about shocks or springs changing properties over a course of the race. which still doesn't affect the vibrational response at a given time - the spring is still there plays the same purpose in the system. We are talking about another input to the vibrational response.

So what you posted is scientific fact - all well and good - but you cannot not apply it to this discussion because at any given time it doesn't change the type of response. So your argument is invalid.

So the article you posted: Seen it, read it.

However, if you had shown us a system that uses heat from the brakes to heat up the springs while the car is braking - changing the properties at that instant! Then cooling back down in time for the exit! that would be interesting to talk about. haha

[ForMuLaOne]

oh lord....

[gato azul]

gato azul
1) The springs and shocks are part of the suspension and as such are responding to 'changes in loads applied to the wheels'.

in as much as the mercury system is part of the suspension

So why, did the FIA changed the wording of the rules?
And what about your statement, that the downforce is acting on the chassis, and the chassis is acting on the suspension?

YES, YES this is how the rule should be interpreted. Aero drag is the 'source' in this latest discussion, not the wheel. The wheels are possibly effected, but that is not required for the system to activate. This is how the 10.1.2 should be applied.

So drag from a wing acting on the suspension is illegal, but downforce from the same wing, compressing the suspension is perfectly legal - that´s an interesting point of view.

[gato azul]

FIA are taking about response as in milliseconds to seconds range.

Really?
Do you have any quote or proof or something written in the Appendix of the rules to back up this statement?
Define "response", then we can start talking.

BTW what happened to your "slope force" argument? Don´t like to comment on it any longer?

[gato azul]

2) Your compass idea system has mass, therefore it effects the wheel loads.

Prove it

[hardingfv32]

in as much as the mercury system is part of the suspension

The mercury system is not part of the suspension. That is the one of the main flaws in your position. The suspension's function or responses are NOT ALTERED in any way if there is no mercury system. That is a unrefutable fact.

Now, don't get to excited before you respond and go into a long diatribe. Keep the response focused and on point. No rambling.

So drag from a wing acting on the suspension is illegal, but downforce from the same wing, compressing the suspension is perfectly legal - that´s an interesting point of view.

More rambling. I have no idea how you draw this conclusion from my statement. You need to think things out better before posting.

Brian

[bhall]

At this point, I'm pretty sure this entire discussion has devolved into nothing more than dueling pedantic crusades between people with ideologies that are impervious to outside influence. As such, it serves no purpose other than being a fountain of self-gratification for participants who are only convinced of their own infallibility.

(Well, there's that, and I get the rare opportunity to be both instigator and "above it all guy.")

[hardingfv32]

Well, there's that, and I get the rare opportunity to be both instigator and "above it all guy.

"The pot calling the kettle black"

Brian

[kris]

Strange!!! most of the cars being reviewed/discussed seem to have a lot of W02 features?.. Will W03 be similar or will mercedes go against the tide?

[PlatinumZealot]

FIA are taking about response as in milliseconds to seconds range.

Really?
Do you have any quote or proof or something written in the Appendix of the rules to back up this statement?
Define "response", then we can start talking.

BTW what happened to your "slope force" argument? Don´t like to comment on it any longer?

You don't know what response is referring to I see, Mr. Gato

Knowing what response is referring to should be a prerequisite before entering this discussion on a rule about suspension response!

How dare you! haha..
I got you now!! You gave your self up ma boy!

I could disregard your posts in regards to this matter with immediate effect! But I will hang around until the car launch.

[bhall]

"The pot calling the kettle black"

A little.

I still have my opinion about the system in question. Some agree with me, some don't. But, no one has been persuaded either way. The composition of both sides remains the same as when this all started.