Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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kilcoo316
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03

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Mestrades wrote:Yesterday I spoke with a catalan engineer of Williams (Xevi Pujolar) and he told me that probably (90% sure) the current order of the grid is: RBR, Mclaren & Mercedes
Did he mention Lotus?


{don't wanna hijack the thread... but :) }

marcush.
marcush.
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Schumacherwas lucky to find this niche for him and as he came back in he was surprised that he had lost some of his former speed or ease.
But look how he developped over those two years.He is developping all the time ,when I do not see anything new coming from rosberg.
My claim is :give schumi a car capable of winning and he does win.

skgoa
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Actually, it was rather obvious to me that he had lost that special "hunger" for success, that had made him train and test more and harder than anyone else during his first career. (I believe Eddie Jordan once said that he and Frentzen had the same amount of talent, but Schumacher just worked that much harder.) Driving an F1 car on the edge takes guts, trust in the car and the willingness to crash - and I just don't see that in the way he drives anymore. Or at least at the beginning of his comeback. By last year's season he had improved a lot, and he clearly benefits massively from his natural talent and his experience, but he still seems unable to throw caution to the wind and just put out that one quali lap.
Hopefully they have a car that can win races this year, since every time he actually had something to fight for, he showed great performance. (While Rosberg seems to just be consistently mediocre, tbh.)

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raymondu999
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Mr.S wrote:I refuse to believe that W02 was within 1s off RBR in Abu Dhabhi after being more than 2s down in Singapore
Why has one got to do with the other? They're very different track layouts. Singapore is all slow and twisty and a low grip, bumpy circuit - Abu Dhabi has a very smooth surface with very high grip. Not to mention two VERY long straights in Abu Dhabi.

Very hard to draw a correlation over just 2 samples too. Even if both circuits should have exhibited a similar time gap - what's to say the Mercedes was 2 seconds off in both races, with Rosberg making the difference in Abu Dhabi? It could have been that the Merc was 1s slower at both venues; with Rosberg losing a second in Singapore.
Last edited by raymondu999 on 11 Mar 2012, 19:36, edited 1 time in total.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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marcush. wrote:Schumacherwas lucky to find this niche for him and as he came back in he was surprised that he had lost some of his former speed or ease.
But look how he developped over those two years.He is developping all the time ,when I do not see anything new coming from rosberg.
My claim is :give schumi a car capable of winning and he does win.
Assuming he can drive faster than Rosberg in Races? And I don't see that happening.
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Dragonfly
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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skgoa wrote:Actually, it was rather obvious to me that he had lost that special "hunger" for success, ....
Depends on what one is assuming as success.
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xpensive
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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The problem is of course how to benchmark Schumacher during his second coming, Rosberg seems to be an unknown quantity in most posters' minds, how good is he after six seasons in F1, besides Webber, he never had much of a competitive team mate?
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Mr.S
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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n smikle wrote:
marcush. wrote:Schumacherwas lucky to find this niche for him and as he came back in he was surprised that he had lost some of his former speed or ease.
But look how he developped over those two years.He is developping all the time ,when I do not see anything new coming from rosberg.
My claim is :give schumi a car capable of winning and he does win.
Assuming he can drive faster than Rosberg in Races? And I don't see that happening.
He has always been faster than Nico. Abu Dhabhi was the only race where Nico was definitely faster than Michael on Race Pace.

Anyways Australia should be cracked,looking forward to RBR vs Mercedes battle especially in qualifying as Nico & Seb are in a league of their own when it comes to qualifying.

Mr.S
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03

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Ross Brawn sees no reason why 2012 Mercedes cannot be a winner

Mercedes team boss Ross Brawn says he has not seen anything to suggest that the squad's 2012 car will not be capable of winning races.

The Brackley-based team has looked strong in winter testing, and is determined to fight for victories this year after two seasons of not quite getting on terms with the frontrunners.

Asked if he felt the new W03 had the genes of a winning Formula 1 car, Brawn replied: "I think you always believe that. You want a winning car and I have not seen anything that tells me it shouldn't be.

"Sometimes you have a car and you struggle with it and you see things that you say are not working how we expected and wanted, but certainly there is nothing about this car that says we should not achieve our ambitions - and our ambitions are to do a lot better than we have done for the past two years."

Brawn was unwilling to give a precise suggestion of where he felt Mercedes stood in the pecking order heading to Melbourne next weekend, and argued that teams' developing solutions to the rules that prevent exhaust-blown diffusers made pre-season predictions even harder than usual.

"It is difficult to judge because you don't know what fuel other people are running," Brawn said.

"When you see a car out there that starts a race stint then you have to assume that it starts on full fuel and the weights are representative and you will see an accurate model of what they are doing. Some of the race runs look good and some don't look so good, and I suspect the cars will change again before we get to Melbourne.

"Some teams have gone for a design that is clearly still blowing the exhaust in the area of the rear tyre – that may have an effect when rear tyre degradation is critical because it is much more difficult to manage where the exhaust flow goes this year than it was last year. Last year it was quite precise, this year it is more general because you cannot have the exhaust pipes to blow through the diffuser.

"There will be some interestings twists and turns over the first few races."


I read another interview posted in the team thread & Ross talks about the Mercedes legacy & that the board are very strict that it will not be insulted anyway. I think he distinctly mentions that the board says a 4th place would not be tolerated anymore. And he says he wants to be a part of the Mercedes success story & he knows if he cant deliver then he has to step down & the board will not tolerate failure.

I think it clear. Writing is on the wall. Mercedes Board have made it clear,3rd is the minimum Target with consistent podium & possibly or hopefully a win. But 4th Would not be tolerated anymore.

Mestrades
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03

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Mercedes team boss Ross Brawn says he has not seen anything to suggest that the squad's 2012 car will not be capable of winning races.

The Brackley-based team has looked strong in winter testing, and is determined to fight for victories this year after two seasons of not quite getting on terms with the frontrunners.

Asked if he felt the new W03 had the genes of a winning Formula 1 car, Brawn replied: "I think you always believe that. You want a winning car and I have not seen anything that tells me it shouldn't be.

"Sometimes you have a car and you struggle with it and you see things that you say are not working how we expected and wanted, but certainly there is nothing about this car that says we should not achieve our ambitions - and our ambitions are to do a lot better than we have done for the past two years."

Brawn was unwilling to give a precise suggestion of where he felt Mercedes stood in the pecking order heading to Melbourne next weekend, and argued that teams' developing solutions to the rules that prevent exhaust-blown diffusers made pre-season predictions even harder than usual.

"It is difficult to judge because you don't know what fuel other people are running," Brawn said.

"When you see a car out there that starts a race stint then you have to assume that it starts on full fuel and the weights are representative and you will see an accurate model of what they are doing. Some of the race runs look good and some don't look so good, and I suspect the cars will change again before we get to Melbourne.

"Some teams have gone for a design that is clearly still blowing the exhaust in the area of the rear tyre – that may have an effect when rear tyre degradation is critical because it is much more difficult to manage where the exhaust flow goes this year than it was last year. Last year it was quite precise, this year it is more general because you cannot have the exhaust pipes to blow through the diffuser.

"There will be some interestings twists and turns over the first few races."

Fizz.Schumi
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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skgoa wrote:Actually, it was rather obvious to me that he had lost that special "hunger" for success, that had made him train and test more and harder than anyone else during his first career. (I believe Eddie Jordan once said that he and Frentzen had the same amount of talent, but Schumacher just worked that much harder.) Driving an F1 car on the edge takes guts, trust in the car and the willingness to crash - and I just don't see that in the way he drives anymore. Or at least at the beginning of his comeback. By last year's season he had improved a lot, and he clearly benefits massively from his natural talent and his experience, but he still seems unable to throw caution to the wind and just put out that one quali lap.
Hopefully they have a car that can win races this year, since every time he actually had something to fight for, he showed great performance. (While Rosberg seems to just be consistently mediocre, tbh.)
Strongly disagree with this when you say that he lost that special 'hunger', The second schumacher lost that hunger in his first career he stepped away from ferrari when he was still capable of winning races and even championships if he had continued for more seasons. Michael Schumacher doesn't ever like to loose whether he is 23 or 43 so him coping to compete in a 4th best car for two seasons is enough to show that he has that special hunger for success, and if he is willing to be committed to a long term plan at in his 40's then he must be more hungry than ever before to be back jumping on that top step of the podium.

Schumi fought his way to 5th from last at spa, In difficult wet conditions he was catching the 'unstoppable vettel' (remember that the rain always is a car equalizer in terms of performance if you know what i mean) and he was on it and his incredible car control showed he had not lost his driving ability to the extent people said he has. Hell he even went air bourne when he crashed into the back of Perez because at singapore so you questioning his willingness to crash was pretty invalid also. Schumi always had his car set to a race setup so even if he was pushing like a mad person in quali he would always be slower than rosberg who chose to have a setup which leaned more towards quali and his willingness to keep his quali place through a race (Not taking anything away from Rosberg because it is a fact that he is one hell of an excellent qualifier and good at warming up tires for that one hot lap). And as far as his gym work is concerned Martin Brundle last season mentioned that Schumi is a beast in a gym still lifting more and working out more than any other formula one driver. And if he could test more .. Schumi would of been at one with the tires right now and his development in performance would of been that much more faster

I agree with your last point though that if this years wo3 is a winner and Michael has the possibility to be where he wants, I think we will see him at his best (hopefully more shades of his first career)

Very sorry for the rant but had to clear up a few points there :D

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Chuckjr
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03

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Wow it would be great to see some Schumi vs Rik rematches. I hope both those guys get cars that can fight at the top. That would make the most unreal season. OMG. [-o<
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Ferraripilot
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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My take on it is simple. Rosberg is a better qualifier, and Schu is a better racer. Schu is more calculating during a race yet a very risky bet as he takes gaps like Senna did, often leading to Schu's destruction. Given the same technical circumstances though and I have no doubt Schu would have been ahead in the points last season. Schu was just riddled with technical issues at the beginning of the season and had way too many DNFs.

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Hail22
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03

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Mercedes has arrived in Melbourne and both cars have been placed in their respective garage spaces.
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marcush.
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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I don´t think it´s time to write off the old man.You can sense his passion and you have to applaude his dedication to make this team suceedand not simply walking away after 20 races .