Tales from the moderating garage

[strad]

You're off topic.
And mostly I agree with wesley123...Not every little detour needs either dealing with or splitting as long as it works it's way back on topic.

[cossie]

Yes, this is a technical forum, and, by and large, comments should be focused on that aspect of F1. However, I feel the recent spate of entirely overzealous and inconsistent moderation is far worse than the vast majority of the superfluous posts that people, for whatever reason, seem to find so offensive.

Agreed, before this 'overzealous' moderating came into place, what was the problem actually? I cannot remember anyone complaining in any form stating that he disliked derailing topics sometimes. I never seen any forum having a problem with derailing. For example exhaust blowing, the RB8 topic derailed into that. So to clean things up you dump it to a dedicated topic to that subject, in the F2012 topic, the same thing happened, and again it is moved to the Exhaust blowing topic. Then it is done in other topics too. So now it seems you have just cleaned the topics, but you dumped everything into one topic, making the whole great discussion people were having into one big mess. No one has any idea anymore what is actually discussed, and because of that there cfomes fights.

In first place you think you cleaned the topics, but what you have done is similair compared to cleaning your room. You start wiping the floor, but move all the mess to under your bed. You arent getting rid of the 'mess', no you're moving the 'problem'.

Threads, like all discussions, work best when they're left to be conversational. Otherwise, this is all just dictation. Frankly, I don't know why that's not respected here on a forum that, above all else, seeks to decode a world where freedom of thought and creativity are considered priceless.

Threads are always derailed at some point and people always will come back to the original subject, just a slight derail.

At any rate, this isn't my forum; I don't make the rules. Hell, I might even be the lone member of the minority for whom any of this is even an issue. But, I do think my time here has come to a close. I'm far, far, far, far, far from the most technically-minded person around, so please don't think that this is some sort of attempt at a punitive action on my part; it's definitely not. This is all just supposed to be fun and games, and frustration is simply not fun for me. (I'd have liked high school a hell of a lot more were that not the case.)

Agreed, this is a place where I come after work just to relax, see what people have discussed and found, but to see what was a single discussion I have to check out 5 different topics and put my own story together. We all know that isnt going to work. Apart from that I have to read through stupidity, ignorance and fights.

I do not see in any way why it is even necessary to split these posts up. Can anyone explain that tgo me?

I might sound like a complete a$$hole by saying this but the only problem we have here on this forum is the ignorant, annoying douchebags who think they know everything, think they are always right and then ask the most stupidest questions. The same guys who post everywhere, in every topic, apart from this one. And I think everyone in this topic know who I am talking about, hell even the mods know it.

But what is done about it? Nothing at all, it is okay to piss people off, create fights etc. But dont you dare to go off topic. Like said before, the mods here attack the posts, not the posters. And that is just wrong.

There is nothing wrong with a healthy discussion, nothing wrong with a derail, and I have yet to see anyone who disagrees with me. But the mods seem to think making sure every post is conform the forum rules is more important than moderating the same guys over and over again who are pissing everyone off, the same guys who cannot have a healthy discussion in any way, the ones who make any discussion on the forum impossible, oh and if there is a discussion going on they are able to destroy the whole discussion in one post. But hey, that is okay as long as you dont go off topic.

If you ask me the moderating team needs to 'fix' the posters, not the posts(hell start with mine if you want to)

P.S. For bonus points PM me the names of the guys you think I was talking about

I pretty much agree, it's not the posts but posters, now I'm not an "expert" on aerodynamics or have any expertize in engineering so when i ask a "stupid" question it's in hope that someone will explain it or redirect me to a thread that covers that question. I really don't need a putdown because I'm not fluent in these subjects i just need a simple answer. Now ask me about EMS and track safety , i have at least some experience in that subject

[WhiteBlue]

I long for the day when Ferrari hires another german driver.

The only way I see that happening is by a package deal with Newey or by Newey exiting the scene.

Even then I would probably continue to take my more controversial ideas to another board for I feel that Tomba by and large does a good job with his moderators. And we would still have enough stuff left to crack our heads over and figure out.

Once in a while we would even agree on something like the probable nature of the PURE investors although mainly each one would continue to ride his own hobby horse like the ineptitude of each and every American F1 scheme.

[xpensive]

...
Once in a while we would even agree on something like the probable nature of the PURE investors although mainly each one would continue to ride his own hobby horse like the ineptitude of each and every American F1 scheme.

One of the perks with being a citizen of a nowadays marginalized country within motorsport, is that you can easily take
an independent stance on certain issues, without being guided or coerced by subconscious nationalistic emotions.

[Richard]

Its not the first time that a topic has got so big that it has been branched off into its onward thread. Flexi wings was the big issue last year and that was given its own thread to allow the RB7 thread to focus on the car.

That approach seems to be a good idea, and there have been comments in threads as well as direct to mods about some topics needing to get their own room. I have branched 3 topics this year - Tyre pressures, F&W ducts and exhaust blowing.

Perhaps the problem with the most recent split (RB* to Exhaust) was that too many posts were moved retrospectively? The alternative would be to ask that future posts continue the conversation in the new thread, and only move posts after that request is made?


.... of course team chatter is always moved out of car threads

[strad]

The alternative would be to ask that future posts continue the conversation in the new thread, and only move posts after that request is made?

That would be better than running around with scissors cutting everything up.

[Steven]

I do think it's quite interesting to see the reactions here.

First of all, there's xpensive and WB, having their own entirely off-topic party in here.

Secondly, there's people who got bunked in the past by mods, including myself, for off-topic or provocative posts. Neither of you are happy with more moderating, but all of you have to admit that it is impossible to still find anything in a thread that is 150 pages long, even before we start with the real racing.

Third, others are apparently quite happy with a little more moderation. They are usually quite silent here and send PMs to the mods.

Fourth, and not for the first time, the technical topics are supposed to be technical and helpful for people who a month later need to look something up. The car threads as they are now are completely useless in that respect, and splitting them into what seems highly discussed topics appears like good practice to me. Unfortunately, moderating action is always too late, so there will unfortunately be some messing up. We are of course open to any suggestions and alternatives, but disagreeing with what we did 6 months ago, and disagreeing with how it is done this year is not going to help anybody.

As mentioned tirelessly as well, the mods are here to help, and seeing what kind of nasty posts I have had to moderate myself today only makes me think we're not strict enough. In fact, seeing that there are more reported posts now than 12 months ago is another signal which we understand as 'more intervention is needed'.

Of course, there is a voting system coming, but don't expect wonders from that, it will need a lot of tweaking before it will eventually work (if ever, but I hope so)

[wesley123]

Secondly, there's people who got bunked in the past by mods, including myself, for off-topic or provocative posts. Neither of you are happy with more moderating, but all of you have to admit that it is impossible to still find anything in a thread that is 150 pages long, even before we start with the real racing.

To be honest I find it more easy to find information within a topic than to search a topic itself.

Fourth, and not for the first time, the technical topics are supposed to be technical and helpful for people who a month later need to look something up.

And I have no problem in doing so with a 150 page long topic, the only people who have a problem with doing that are the type of guys I described in my previous post.

The car threads as they are now are completely useless in that respect

No they're not and if you think that is the case it is mostly because whole stories get cut up and nobody understanding the discussion anymore

and splitting them into what seems highly discussed topics appears like good practice to me.

And a lot seem to disagree

Unfortunately, moderating action is always too late

It is not as you cannot anticipate anything.

so there will unfortunately be some messing up.

Of course, unless they're robots

We are of course open to any suggestions and alternatives, but disagreeing with what we did 6 months ago, and disagreeing with how it is done this year is not going to help anybody.

We disagree with how it is done now.

As mentioned tirelessly as well, the mods are here to help, and seeing what kind of nasty posts I have had to moderate myself today only makes me think we're not strict enough. In fact, seeing that there are more reported posts now than 12 months ago is another signal which we understand as 'more intervention is needed'.

So you look at the postcount and say; 'god we need another mod', or you look at the pages of a topic and think the same thing? Postcount and the amount of pages say absolutely nothing about the information in a topic at all.

So I saw a guy 2 days ago making an account just to offend anyone. My quick guess is that there wasnt any action taken towards him/her. And there is where things already go wrong, such a guy needs to be banned immediately.

The mods here seem to be more interested in categorizing information in the correct topic than actually moderating things. Categorizing things is something a monkey can do, you do not need a mod for that, however to keep people in check you do need mods, and that isnt done at all.

When one is bullying another, or just asking dumb questions on purpose, trying to force offensive posts the mods just say 'here is the report button' or 'just dont react on it'. Excuse me, but it is the taks of an moderator to make sure these things are fixed up but it seems discussing towards a different subject is worse than sending death threats to another.

[Steven]

Wesley, you saw a guy register to offend someone... did you mention it to any mod?
Have you actually verified if something was done, rather than guess about it?

Secondly, the number of posts are the least of my worries, so I hardly ever check. What worries me is the amount of reports on posts, and seeing why they get reported. Of course, by the time we intervene, some people have started an argument already, requiring us to take action on these posts as well.

I also want to note that we ban people far quicker than was the case 6 months ago, and for the exact reasons you want them banned. And sure, if you find a "death threat", you should report it. I don't see the difficulty there.

The rules are quite simple, bullying, personal comments, trolling and off-topic ranting is forbidden. If you feel something is inadequately checked, let us know, but while there may be room for improvement, there sure has been improvement in enforcing the rules.

[strad]

The rules are quite simple, bullying, personal comments, trolling and off-topic ranting is forbidden

Tomba
I can't speak for others but for myself it seems there are different standards employed or perhaps favoritism, but doesn't seem equally applied.
Some get away with a lot of bullying or attacking whilst others get slapped on the wrist for a lot less.
And for the thread splitting and removing of partial posts?
I usually see no reason and think it makes some threads even more confusing.
I don't think y'all should be so proactive.
just my two cents.
PS
Could it be that those "others" are just better at employing the report button to their advantage so they don't have to take what they hand out?

[Lancelot28]

I was expecting to drowned in wrath, but I've had a load of replies saying thank you, so there is hope after all.

[strad]

Alright, so look, I just got busted for saying "posterior" (such a filthy word! ) by Mr Mod-Dude above who just told you to stop this topic (much less say "o shi.." ). So, careful now, boys, lest ye get busted too

This over moderation is going to drive people away.
Is that what you want?
EDIT
You should allow the conversation to flow like a normal in person conversation..it doesn't always stick totally to the topic but it comes back, and the world over, people disagree..As long as it doesn't get to where in real life they would come to blows,,,so what.
You seem to moderate what doesn't need moderation and allow others to escalate to where if one could get their hands on the other they'd strangle each other...makes no sense.

[Pup]

Alright, so look, I just got busted for saying "posterior" (such a filthy word! ) by Mr Mod-Dude above who just told you to stop this topic (much less say "o shi.." ). So, careful now, boys, lest ye get busted too

Such language! As chairman of the Prevention of Egregious Naughty Inferences Society, I applaud this move.

[Steven]

Alright, so look, I just got busted for saying "posterior" (such a filthy word! ) by Mr Mod-Dude above who just told you to stop this topic (much less say "o shi.." ). So, careful now, boys, lest ye get busted too

Such language! As chairman of the Prevention of Egregious Naughty Inferences Society, I applaud this move.

strad, Pup, interesting that you remove who that quote is from, but fortunately I know Since I am Mr Mod-Dude in this case, just a minor clarification.

Mr Post-Dude was warned for his behaviour towards other posters in his post, not for the particular use of "posterior". In fact he said "at least I'm not pulling calculations out of my posterior". Well, poeple who invest the time to calculate things for verification should be applauded, and not be patronized like this. It's just basic decency.

In the end, there will always be members unhappy, but this thread seemingly only vents frustration about thread splitting. I presume everything else is OK then

[WhiteBlue]

Criticising someone for "pulling calculations out of someone's posterior" should be legitimate language where it applies IMO. Mathematics, quantifying or calculus may be the preferred way of putting points across on this forum, but it isn't a guarantee for objectivity or physically correct results in forum contributions.

I know a guy here who plugs tons of figures from literature and from his own invention. He then shakes them and presents them as an indigestible hodgepodge cocktail. You never know where he got the input from because he usually doesn't quote sources.

That is only one example. If you use unsuitable models for physical phenomena your figures will be equally far from reality. So there can be many instances where figures suggest an objectivity that isn't there in reality.

We have to have a way to make that point. I do not understand why we cannot make the point that someone got it wrong if he has. There are surely ways to be more or less polite about it, I give you that. But what are you to do in case a guy is rather obnoxious about his own ignorance? Some people can be very pig headed or need more robust language to come to grips with their own shortcomings.