Embarrassment for Hamilton? The Reborn Button...

[waynes]

keeping Massa is the worst mistake Ferrari ever made never mind ditching Kimi (right move imo and im a kimi fan)

Massa is a distinctly average driver who needs mothering through races.

get rid. get someone in to push Alonso and you'll get a Ferrari WDC

simple as that.

[CHT]

keeping Massa is the worst mistake Ferrari ever made never mind ditching Kimi (right move imo and im a kimi fan)

Massa is a distinctly average driver who needs mothering through races.

get rid. get someone in to push Alonso and you'll get a Ferrari WDC

simple as that.

Alonso won his double WDC without a strong team mate, when Alonso has a strong team mate at Mclaren it was a disaster.

Alonso is a fighter, just give him a good car and he will win it.

[PlatinumZealot]

keeping Massa is the worst mistake Ferrari ever made never mind ditching Kimi (right move imo and im a kimi fan)

Massa is a distinctly average driver who needs mothering through races.

get rid. get someone in to push Alonso and you'll get a Ferrari WDC

simple as that.

Remember Massa had Kimi under control at the time. The same average driver you speak of. It is hard to really say if today's Massa was the same as the one in 2007/8/9 but it is only fair to assume so. That is what makes this Kimi Grosjean matchup so exciting.

[sriraj1031]

keeping Massa is the worst mistake Ferrari ever made never mind ditching Kimi (right move imo and im a kimi fan)

Massa is a distinctly average driver who needs mothering through races.

get rid. get someone in to push Alonso and you'll get a Ferrari WDC

simple as that.

Remember Massa had Kimi under control at the time. The same average driver you speak of. It is hard to really say if today's Massa was the same as the one in 2007/8/9 but it is only fair to assume so. That is what makes this Kimi Grosjean matchup so exciting.

Button had Hamilton under control and also hamilton had alonso under control so you say button is better than hamilton who in turn is better than Alonso , well some times during ones career the drivers will have an off-year and some one will be on song depending on the car but talent is permanent

[beelsebob]

keeping Massa is the worst mistake Ferrari ever made never mind ditching Kimi (right move imo and im a kimi fan)

Massa is a distinctly average driver who needs mothering through races.

get rid. get someone in to push Alonso and you'll get a Ferrari WDC

simple as that.

Remember Massa had Kimi under control at the time. The same average driver you speak of. It is hard to really say if today's Massa was the same as the one in 2007/8/9 but it is only fair to assume so. That is what makes this Kimi Grosjean matchup so exciting.

I think that's gone quite a long way beyond fair – he's had several years to show that he's still got it, and unfortunately, shown that however minor any brain injury that's left is, it's still significant enough to stop him being a top end F1 driver.

[PlatinumZealot]

Button had Hamilton under control and also hamilton had alonso under control so you say button is better than hamilton who in turn is better than Alonso , well some times during ones career the drivers will have an off-year and some one will be on song depending on the car but talent is permanent

Nope not the same really. Button never had Hamilton under control. Under control means you know you are going to be faster all the time. Button was rarely faster than Hamilton.

Lets look at the performance stats of Hamiltons "worst year"
Average qualifying gap: about 0.2 seconds in normal conditions.
Races both finished: 7:7
Qualification: 6:13
Wins 3:3

Hamilton just screwed up on the track he was driving like crap in some races for whatever stupid reasons - and Button barely had better stats. Agree?

However, I can't remember Kimi screwing up those two years. He was actually driving his best with little or no mistakes - Massa was just a bit quicker. No shame with Massa being quicker at the time you know.

But lets us not descend into a fan-boy ying yang. You drew me out but I have to use facts.


We are approaching the first race so lets just chill until Sunday afternoon. The car is good, the drivers are good, lets see if they can take the fight to the big boys and which one of them will be carrying the torch for Lotus.

[Giblet]

Changed topic to the topic of the day... like the title matters.

[dren]

Button has always been a very good driver. He is very quick when the car is perfect. He is an excellent passer, although a lot more risk averse than Hamilton. Button will set it up, Hamilton will force it. Hamilton has more raw pace compared to Button. It seems that Button sees the big picture while Hamilton is in the moment. It took Button about 1/3 of the year to get settled into Mclaren, and now it is as if it's his team. I am tipping Button for WDC this year, especially if it is close at the top. He knows how to bring the points home.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Button has always been a very good driver. He is very quick when the car is perfect. He is an excellent passer, although a lot more risk averse than Hamilton. Button will set it up, Hamilton will force it. Hamilton has more raw pace compared to Button. It seems that Button sees the big picture while Hamilton is in the moment. It took Button about 1/3 of the year to get settled into Mclaren, and now it is as if it's his team. I am tipping Button for WDC this year, especially if it is close at the top. He knows how to bring the points home.

Very good points dren.

It will be a titanic struggle at McLaren this season...cannot wait!

[raymondu999]

Button will set it up, Hamilton will force it.

I don't think that's an entirely fair assessment. Hamilton is mega at setting up passes. Where they really differ is in marginal situations - if it's marginal; Button will play it safe. Hamilton will lunge. When it doesn't happen; he looks like an idiot. When it does happen; he looks like a superstar.

[markc]

It's so much like Prost/Senna in my eyes:
Smooth Vs Aggressive
Strategy Vs Instinct

I personally love the dynamic in Macca, and I think they're the better team for it.

[PlatinumZealot]

Yerp.. Hamilton is like Senna in so many ways. But He has better overtaking skills. Senna wasn't much of an overtaker.

Senna also had much faster cars on average. Going by Massa's performance this year it's fair to say tha the MAc 2007 and 2008 was the second fastest car. Even the third fastest when that BMW sauber was around.

I hope Hamilton finally gets his Dominant car this year, but it's unlikely since the cars seem so close.

[Just_a_fan]

I'm with markc on this one. Hamilton/Button is Senna/Prost all over but without the hatred. I think Button and Hamilton really do get on well. Senna/Prost after Canada last year would have been explosive. We know what Senna would have done as a result of that sort of shunt because we saw it in Japan...

On the whole, I think that Hamilton fully on his game will beat Button fully on his game. But Hamilton needs to be able to keep that level up for most of the season because if he loses concentration then he bombs out. Button seems to have a smoother curve to his ability - the peak is slightly lower than Hamilton's but it's easier to stay closer to the peak if you see what I mean.

If Hamilton turns up this year like he did in 2007/8 then Button will struggle to keep with him and Hamilton will be right up there for the title.

If Hamilton turns up this year like he did last year then he'll be driving for someone else next year because Button will drive him out of the team...

[markc]

one thing's for sure it's going to be fascinating to watch

[PlatinumZealot]

How cheeky, He says Button only won because he (hamilton) was off his game! Oh mayne,, how is Button going to reply to this!

“Losing the team battle to Jenson didn’t bother me,” he said. “If we’d been both ­competitive through the year it would have been tough to deal with.

“But I know I threw away points, made very silly mistakes. I’ve just drawn a line under it.

“If he’d won the championship it would have been even worse, but I just don’t plan on it happening again. It’s what ahead that will define me.

“It’s a new year, a new chapter, with new chances ahead. It’s an exciting time,” he added.