Embarrassment for Hamilton? The Reborn Button...

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munudeges
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Re: Embarrassment for Hamilton? The Reborn Button...

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I don't see why any experienced watcher of Formula 1 would take any of what a team says at face value when there is no evidence, especially when history teaches us that it's a very backhanded world. Even Red Bull are doing it when they say they underperformed rather than McLaren being dominant. There's no evidence for that either. But, whatever.

Choosing not to believe what Whitmarsh says is my prerogative here. I neither like nor dislike what he said, but it's pretty obvious that some would like to paint me having a completely irrelevant view on that for whatever reason.......

munudeges
munudeges
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Re: Embarrassment for Hamilton? The Reborn Button...

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beelsebob wrote:The evidence is that Martin Whitmarsh said "damn, we could have had a 1-2 if we'd not misscalculated fuel and run in engine mode 4 for most of the race" (paraphrasing somewhat)
That's the message he obviously wants to get across, as well as the implication that they could have been faster. It's not evidence.

jamsbong
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Re: Embarrassment for Hamilton? The Reborn Button...

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"Embarrassment for Hamilton? The Reborn Button..."???

I think Button's rebirth came in 2010. Hamilton had his one hit wonder, just like Villeneuve in the 90s. Unless Hamilton has the required intelligence and focus, I highly doubt that he will be able to win as long as drivers like Button, Vettel, Alonso is around. Then there is Schumacher and Raikkonen who could easily spoil Hamilton's day if their car is performing at the same level.

I always feel like throwing up when I hear him say "I'm Lewis Hamilton, a world champion" from the Tag Heuer ad.

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raymondu999
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Re: Embarrassment for Hamilton? The Reborn Button...

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None of the drivers on the current grid deserve the insult of being equated to Jacques Villeneuve. And come on - Hamilton has loads more talent than Jacques.
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JimClarkFan
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Re: Embarrassment for Hamilton? The Reborn Button...

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that's true, Hamilton is better than Jacques, but I also have a hard time seeing him win another World Championship if he doesn't starting thinking about strategy more. He needs to get smart quick, because at the moment he looks very one dimensional, extremely fast but no ability to think inside the cock pit and manipulate his race position whereas Vettel, Button and Alonso can.

If he keeps blaming his lack of a 'bubble' nothing will change. He needs to figure out that isn't his problem, and he needs to drop the attitude he's got at the moment. He has had a face on him since Monaco last year.
Last edited by JimClarkFan on 19 Mar 2012, 03:34, edited 1 time in total.

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raymondu999
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Re: Embarrassment for Hamilton? The Reborn Button...

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Yup - the old formula suited him perfectly - with basically 3 mini sprint races. This formula is a bit more strategic
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jamsbong
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Re: Embarrassment for Hamilton? The Reborn Button...

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Hamilton have amazing speed which is his talent and that is ironically what Button lacks. However, Button makes it up by being focused and well-trained intelligence.

I think career wise, Villeneuve and Hamilton are very similar - both started off with a strong high with a WDC then continue to be ever weaker and poorer results. I'm not saying Villeneuve = Hamilton but career wise, there is a close pattern.

GrizzleBoy
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Re: Embarrassment for Hamilton? The Reborn Button...

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JimClarkeFan wrote:that's true, Hamilton is better than Jacques, but I also have a hard time seeing him win another World Championship if he doesn't starting thinking about strategy more. He needs to get smart quick, because at the moment he looks very one dimensional, extremely fast but no ability to think inside the cock pit and manipulate his race position whereas Vettel, Button and Alonso can.

If he keeps blaming his lack of a 'bubble' nothing will change. He needs to figure out that isn't his problem, and he needs to drop the attitude he's got at the moment. He has had a face on him since Monaco last year.
What's with all this bad critique after this first race though? Hamilton since the end of last year, has been obviously trying to show a better side to all of us.

He got the first pole of the season.

The ONLY mistake Hamilton made was to spin his wheels at the start of the race.

Everything else that went wrong in the race was his teams fault.

They made him wait too long for tyres after the first stint, then released him into a load of traffic.

They made him wait too long after the second stint, then did their double stop, which allowed Vettel to just jump into second without any hard work at all, while also having Mark Webber breathing down his neck at the re-start.

It was the teams strategy that slowed down his second stint and screwed him out of second place, not Hamiltons.

At the end of the day, he:

-Got a "bad" start that still landed him in second place and

-Was screwed out of second by events that were out of his control.


Is that really reason to be talking so morbid about his racing performance already? You're already digging a grave for him because he came third due to just bad luck?

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megz
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Re: Embarrassment for Hamilton? The Reborn Button...

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One could blame the tyres on Hamilton's aggressive driving. He's been shown to be quite a bit more abusive to his tyres than Button. Regardless, he did an epic job to get pole and then was outclassed by Button.

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Hangaku
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Re: Embarrassment for Hamilton? The Reborn Button...

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One could also blame the fact that he had to drive so aggressively due to the situation that he was put in, partly by his team making bad decisions.

We'll see how this pans out, but making such speculation after the first race of a twenty race season is foolhardy.
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Nando
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Re: Embarrassment for Hamilton? The Reborn Button...

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jamsbong wrote:Hamilton have amazing speed which is his talent and that is ironically what Button lacks. However, Button makes it up by being focused and well-trained intelligence.

I think career wise, Villeneuve and Hamilton are very similar - both started off with a strong high with a WDC then continue to be ever weaker and poorer results. I'm not saying Villeneuve = Hamilton but career wise, there is a close pattern.
Not really. 09-10-11 Hamilton out of the slow teams won most races, it was only '11 that a teammate beat him.

Now 2012 he had a car capable of wins. let's judge him after this season.
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JimClarkFan
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Re: Embarrassment for Hamilton? The Reborn Button...

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@GrizzleBoy
It isn't just the first race of this season, ever since Monaco last year when he had a shockingly bad race, since then his decision making and attitude for most of the rest of the reason was poor.

Sure its only the first race of this season, however speaking to the press yesterday the Hamilton of last year reared its head again. Obviously if he goes to Malaysia and wins that might change. Who knowns.

@megz
Why can't he drive less aggressively though, many of the other tops drivers can do it.

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raymondu999
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Re: Embarrassment for Hamilton? The Reborn Button...

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Nando wrote:09-10-11 Hamilton out of the slow teams won most races.
2010 and 2011 were hardly slow cars though... and in 09 since Nurburgring the car was half decent when the track was littered with slow corners - and even in fast circuits too at times - such as in Suzuka.
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GrizzleBoy
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Re: Embarrassment for Hamilton? The Reborn Button...

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JimClarkeFan wrote:@GrizzleBoy
It isn't just the first race of this season, ever since Monaco last year when he had a shockingly bad race, since then his decision making and attitude for most of the rest of the reason was poor.

Sure its only the first race of this season, however speaking to the press yesterday the Hamilton of last year reared its head again. Obviously if he goes to Malaysia and wins that might change. Who knowns.
If a person is not happy, then they are not happy.

Lewis was not happy because his car was way off the pace, he fluffed his start and the team allowed Vettel to slot in front of him without even having to try/overtake him on the track.

I respect a person who shows their true feelings much more than a person who smiles and hugs everyone for the camera when they clearly have disingenuine feelings without a camera in their face.

Its kind of the reason why I don't really like Button. As a driver, there's nothing to say about him, but in front of the camera, there's something so blatantly fake and disingenuine that makes me unable to trust him.

Maybe that's the kind of person people like. I don't know.

Same with Schumi. Ever since the team tried to screw Rosberg in India, I have noticed Rosberg seems less radiant than before.

There is politics happening that we can't see by watching a BBC television show and if a driver is not happy about what is happening, then that's that.

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: Embarrassment for Hamilton? The Reborn Button...

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GrizzleBoy wrote:
Lewis was not happy because his car was way off the pace
Really? But was good enough for him to put on pole, and for Button to win a race.
GrizzleBoy wrote: he fluffed his start and the team allowed Vettel to slot in front of him without even having to try/overtake him on the track.
If he pitted 3-4 laps earlier every stint, he would have 8 extra laps to do on his last set of tyres, or face the extra pit stop. Button would have reeled him in by the latter stages.

If a driver is out front, and his team mate behind and they are on similar strategies, its the driver out front that gets the choice as befits his position on track.

Why favour the 2nd driver to leapfrog the first? As the second driver could just use the undercut to the first...that is just not cricket!
Politics my ass.
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