Embarrassment for Hamilton? The Reborn Button...

[scotty86]

Blame everything but the driver eh?

[bosanac1]

on outright speed Hamilton is faster

but tyre management playing right into Button's favor

[Maynard G. Krebs]

Maybe he should have tried drag racing.

[Just_a_fan]

Anyone who thinks that Hamilton is slow needs their head examining. Even Button has admitted that Hamilton is worryingly fast.

Hamilton's problem is that he is fast no matter what. And if the car is killing the tyres when it is fast then his speed plays against him fairly quickly.

Button's style is nearly as quick as Hamilton's but, crucially, it is kinder to the tyres. A case of tortoise and hare, it seems.

An interesting tweet to Brundle suggets that 77% of drivers who have won the first race of the season have gone on to win the title since 1990. If that is true, then Hamilton has got his work cut out to rebalance the odds.

I'm guessing that the 77% stat doesn't take account of the fact that in most teams there is a definite fast and slow driver (these being relative terms, of course). Where both drivers for a team are closely matched I'm betting the the result lies somewhat in the remaining 23% of races...

[GrizzleBoy]

Anyone who thinks that Hamilton is slow needs their head examining. Even Button has admitted that Hamilton is worryingly fast.

Hamilton's problem is that he is fast no matter what. And if the car is killing the tyres when it is fast then his speed plays against him fairly quickly.

Button's style is nearly as quick as Hamilton's but, crucially, it is kinder to the tyres. A case of tortoise and hare, it seems.

An interesting tweet to Brundle suggets that 77% of drivers who have won the first race of the season have gone on to win the title since 1990. If that is true, then Hamilton has got his work cut out to rebalance the odds.

I'm guessing that the 77% stat doesn't take account of the fact that in most teams there is a definite fast and slow driver (these being relative terms, of course). Where both drivers for a team are closely matched I'm betting the the result lies somewhat in the remaining 23% of races...

IMHO I think the whole "killing the tyres" thing is bull.....for now at least.

Both McLarens totally left the pack at the beginning and the gap between Hamilton and Button hardly changed at all except for when Hamilton was released directly behind Perez.

This means that Hamiltons tyres were just fine in relation to Buttons. If he started to suddenly drop off the pace at the end of the first stint then we'd have seen it, but he was at a constant speed for the most part and both McLarens held a consant gap after Buttons initial smasher of a start.

Due to the fact that being released behind Perez put Hamilton about 6 seconds further behind Button, when Vettel was about 6 seconds behind Hamilton before the pits, means that Vettel was breathing down his neck in the second stint.

Due to this Hamilton would have had to step on the gas to make sure Vettel on the faster soft tyres didn't catch up and get into the DRS zone, which would explain how he managed to create a 2 second gap between himself and Vettel while using slower tyres.

So why didn't Hamilton have the ability to once again pull away from the rest of the crowd with Button on the restart?

Button and Hamilton both had the same tyres as they both pitted at the same time and both had only safety car laps on them, so can it really be the tyres?

If McLaren were truly playing the fuel management game, then it would make sense that Hamilton seemed to have suddenly lost that speed the McLaren had due to the fact that he used more fuel to pull away from Vettel on the second stint after being behind Perez cost him six seconds and almost put Vettel in DRS territory.

Meanwhile Button only had to use extra fuel when he really needed to and so had the reserve left to dash off again and also set fastest laps to respond to Vettel while Hamilton was struggling to keep Webber off his tail.


To further support the theory that McLaren were playing the fuel management game, after the engineers told Button that he had a ten second lead over Hamilton, Vettel began to take time out of his lead immediately after.

How does a car that is reported to be killing its tyres go about setting a fastest lap on the last lap of the race?

That sounds to me like Button said "okay, ten second lead, let me lay off for a bit" while Vettel was pushing all the while to catch Hamilton who he now had in his sights.

I don't know, there seems to be more evidence to support the fact that the McLarens were just playing it safe when they felt to/could as opposed to being pressured at the end (not including Hamilton who could not employ this strategy once having to use too much fuel to push past Perez and run away from Vettel).

[alelanza]

His very first pit stop of 2012 ended up putting him behind traffic, giving Button a lead on him that went from 3-4 seconds to 11 seconds, allowed Vettel to close in on him massively into almost DRS territory, forcing him to push harder, use more rubber on his tyres and use more fuel than necessary which could have been instrumental in pushing to catch up to anyone who "passed" him (i.e. Vettel getting ahead via the safety car).

Good strategy?

And the good strategy was?

[Pierce89]

Could be a number of things.

Qualifying pace/setup is a different monster to race pace/setup.

Qualifying pace is dealing with a lighter car and just pushing as much as you can out of it without pushing too much so you have tyres left to actually race with.

Race pace demands you set the car up to handle an extra ~60kg of fuel onboard at the star and be able to adapt to handling changes as fuel burns and tyres evolve throughout the race.

If that isn't right, you wont be winning regardless of qualifying pace.

Think back to Monza where Hamilton was unable to pass Schumacher on the straightdue to his 7th gear being set too short.

It's the exact same reason why the Red Bulls and Ferraris looked "morbid" in Q3 on saturday, but made everyone say "Oh... " come sunday.

Interesting how noone actually brings setup into why Lewis was slower on race day though.

I'm too lazy to look up quotes, but it's well known that in the "parc ferme" era there's no legal oppurtunity for different quali and race setups. Button and Hamilton both had to race on the setup they qualified on.So if Hamilton's setup was biased towards quali pace he should've put a bigger gap on Button in quali(If he's really got a natural speed advantage}. It's starting to look to me like Lewis can maybe hang it out that little bit extra for a short burst of blinding speed, but his style of driving ON PIRELLIs is just normally slower over a race distance in comparison to Button. Shrieker's brother might be on to something.

Edit: Ferrari didn't make anyone say Oh! on Sunday. Alonso did. Felipe couldn't get the Ferrari out of its own way.

[Caito]

on outright speed Hamilton is faster

but tyre management playing right into Button's favor

BS.

How can you say Hamilton is/isn't faster? Sorry but you can't.. yes he got pole, Button got fastest lap and a win.

Button pitted on laps 16 and 36. Hamilton on laps 17 and 36. If there's an optimum point in which it's convenient to change your tires then both arrived to that point at the same time, Button pitted 1 lap earlier. If button would be more gentle with tires.. why would he pit at the same time as a tire destroyer Hamilton?


There's an even more interesting question. If you can do 17 laps with soft tire + quali laps. Which would take it to 19 laps more or less, and medium tires are slower, why did Mclaren chose to change for medium tires to do 19 laps on the second stint?(which is what redbulls did).

Even leave soft tires for the last stint, when you have a lighter car.

So, so many questions, so little answers. How can you arrive to the conclusion that Button is nicer on the tires? Just because they say so in the TV. The fact that he is very gentle with the steering doesn't imply he's gentle with the tires.

Of course you can argue Perez was gentle with the tires, pitted only once. But he was going slower aswell.


There's a general lack of data because we're outsiders. The team tell journos what is convenient to them. So there's no evidence to say A or B, there are too many questions, too little answers.

[megz]

@megz
Why can't he drive less aggressively though, many of the other tops drivers can do it.

Precisely my point, he had issues in Turkey in 2008 with the Bridgestones that led to him having to run a 3 stop strategy at Bridgestone's advice - this following a delamination at the same circuit in 2007. He has shown on a few occasions on the Pirellis that he can't quite manage them as well as Button, Vettel or perhaps Alonso.

Perhaps he is too aggressive coming on the power or too aggressive on turn in - we see him locking up far more often (although not so much now admittedly) than the other top drivers, especially in qualifying. Perhaps it's this tendency to hold too much entrance speed that helps to kill the Pirellis a touch faster, who knows?

Regardless, all drivers are given the same tyres and the drivers have to make do with what they have and learn to adapt and make the most of what they have. On raw pace I think Hamilton trumps Button but I think Button is able to control and measure himself far better in a racing situation.

[raymondu999]

he can't quite manage them as well as Button, Vettel or perhaps Alonso.

I don't think we can say that of Alonso yet. He's had a car that was exceptionally kind on its tyres; and one that eats it up. I'm not saying he's bad on the Pirellis - but too early to say.

I think Hamilton slides the rear too much. He often uses oversteer to get a quick directional flick; then catching it and getting an exit. Vettel does it too - but seems to do it differently. Vettel seems to slide it very little; catches it before he gets to the apex; and powers straight out. Hamilton seems to carry a lot more speed (relative to how much grip the cars have) and catches it only at the exit. You can see that sometimes at the exit there is still a bit of opposite lock going on - such as his pole lap in Korea.

[Pierce89]

Maybe he should have tried drag racing.

spoken like a true southerner.

[raymondu999]

I never understood the love people had for drag racing. It always struck me as something that is car-dependent more than driver dependent.

[ParanoiD]

I never understood the love people had for drag racing. It always struck me as something that is car-dependent more than driver dependent.

I do drag racing sometimes, and the driver make a difference as well. The way you know the car powerband is important, and the way you start is very crucial.

But yes, the better car will always have better time with normal driver, rather than bad car with an expert driver, if that is your point.

[raymondu999]

Other than the start though - is there really much other than not cocking up your shifts?

[GrizzleBoy]

Could be a number of things.

Qualifying pace/setup is a different monster to race pace/setup.

Qualifying pace is dealing with a lighter car and just pushing as much as you can out of it without pushing too much so you have tyres left to actually race with.

Race pace demands you set the car up to handle an extra ~60kg of fuel onboard at the star and be able to adapt to handling changes as fuel burns and tyres evolve throughout the race.

If that isn't right, you wont be winning regardless of qualifying pace.

Think back to Monza where Hamilton was unable to pass Schumacher on the straightdue to his 7th gear being set too short.

It's the exact same reason why the Red Bulls and Ferraris looked "morbid" in Q3 on saturday, but made everyone say "Oh... " come sunday.

Interesting how noone actually brings setup into why Lewis was slower on race day though.

I'm too lazy to look up quotes, but it's well known that in the "parc ferme" era there's no legal oppurtunity for different quali and race setups. Button and Hamilton both had to race on the setup they qualified on.So if Hamilton's setup was biased towards quali pace he should've put a bigger gap on Button in quali(If he's really got a natural speed advantage}. It's starting to look to me like Lewis can maybe hang it out that little bit extra for a short burst of blinding speed, but his style of driving ON PIRELLIs is just normally slower over a race distance in comparison to Button. Shrieker's brother might be on to something.

Edit: Ferrari didn't make anyone say Oh! on Sunday. Alonso did. Felipe couldn't get the Ferrari out of its own way.

You are allowed to adjust the wing in parc ferme.

If the front wing isn't adjusted to deal with the fact that you'll need to deal with an extra 160kg of fuel on your turn in, then the balance will not be there in the car therefore nor will the confidence be there, or speed.

The point however, is that the overall setup you use for qualifying, can compromise the speed you have on Sunday.

This is also something that is well known.

That's why I said race setup and quali setup aren't one in the same and there is usually a compromise.

I just think it's interesting how literally noone mentions something so crucial when discussing the difference between saturday/sunday pace.