Embarrassment for Hamilton? The Reborn Button...

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I just think it's interesting how literally noone mentions something so crucial when discussing the difference between saturday/sunday pace.

Hamilton made the call regards his set up. A driver knows that setting up for ultimate one lap pace will probably have an adverse effect on race pace due to tyre degradation and other influences.

Anyway, if you look at the first stint, Button pulled a lead of around 3.5 seconds before reaching his pit stop window on lap 16.
Now had Hamilton come in a round earlier, He would still of had to contend with Perez being in front of him on the second stint. The Sauber's where quick and no amount of strategy was going to see Hamilton come out ahead of Perez.

The problem for McLaren was they didn't foresee Sauber's pace. Nor do I suspect, did anyone else.

Had roles being reversed, I'm certain Button would have had to contend with it too.

[lebesset]

it seems obvious to me that hamilton and his crew got the setup wrong , he was slower from the word go with identical equipment ..he isn't a slower driver than button

the safety car and strategy problem merely exascerbated the matter

ok , first time out in the new car , don't expect to see it again

[GrizzleBoy]

Hamilton made the call regards his set up. A driver knows that setting up for ultimate one lap pace will probably have an adverse effect on race pace due to tyre degradation and other influences.

Was this supposed to be a reply to what you quoted because tbh, when you include all the other information you chose to cut out from my post, you're basically saying the exact same thing as me?

Anyway, if you look at the first stint, Button pulled a lead of around 3.5 seconds before reaching his pit stop window on lap 16.
Now had Hamilton come in a round earlier, He would still of had to contend with Perez being in front of him on the second stint. The Sauber's where quick and no amount of strategy was going to see Hamilton come out ahead of Perez.

The problem for McLaren was they didn't foresee Sauber's pace. Nor do I suspect, did anyone else.

Had roles being reversed, I'm certain Button would have had to contend with it too.

You seem very sure that McLaren made the right choice and no better choice could have been made, but why and what evidence are you using to come to that conclusion?

Perez's tyres were dropping off massively every lap while Hamilton was maintaing a pretty constant gap from the front and showed little sign of irratic or sudden drop off in consistency or ability to use the tyres.

Had Hamilton pit a few laps later, he would probably have been in a better position in regards to undercutting the Sauber and the traffic that was holding him back would have been Vettels problem to deal with.

He had a large enough gap from Vettel and consistency in lap time before his first stop to achieve that.

I honestly dont see how what happened can be seen as the best strategy possible on the day.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

@Grizzleboy
Read this, then tell me what you think.
http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/new ... /7611136/?

It seems that you appear to know better than McLaren when it comes to strategy even though you are not privy to any of the tyre information.
Not only that, but with 20/20 hindsight you can make any points you like. Who knew IF the safety car was going to be deployed and WHEN? There is no science behind that!

You have made no specific arguments here other than Hamilton's race was ruined by strategy. And that is plain untrue for the above reasons.

[raymondu999]

Strategy is nothing more than a "best guess" of what will happen. You may get quite good at it - but never 100%.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Strategy is nothing more than a "best guess" of what will happen. You may get quite good at it - but never 100%.

Exactly. Button has had the rough end of the deal at times and so has every other driver on the grid.

[Pup]

So, if McLaren hadn't stacked the pit stops, and Hamilton pitted on the next lap with Vettel, I wonder if he would have come out ahead of Button. I think it was pretty close with Vettel and Button wasn't it?

[raymondu999]

It was 10 seconds before the stops. Depends how much slower the MLarens were going with the safety car speed limits

[GrizzleBoy]

@Grizzleboy
Read this, then tell me what you think.
http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/new ... /7611136/?

It seems that you appear to know better than McLaren when it comes to strategy even though you are not privy to any of the tyre information.
Not only that, but with 20/20 hindsight you can make any points you like. Who knew IF the safety car was going to be deployed and WHEN? There is no science behind that!

You have made no specific arguments here other than Hamilton's race was ruined by strategy. And that is plain untrue for the above reasons.

I specifically asked you why you think it was impossible for Hamilton to emerge from the pits in front of Perez at any point and give reasons why I dont think it was impossible.

Your answer is to show me an article that states how Vettel jumped him at the safety car about 17 laps after he had already passed Perez?

So basically, your reasoning for it being completely impossible for Hamilton to have not been released behind the Sauber of Perez on lap 17 is because the safety car came out on lap 37, (17 laps after Hamilton had already Passed Perez).

[gold333]

Eventhough I still love Lewis here's what a mature World Champion who is confident about themselves would have said post race:

"Eventhough I would have loved to swap places with Jenson today obviously, but he was untouchable. But I'm confident in myself and I think we are going to have a very, very, exciting year this year. But McLaren won today, and I shall definitely be celebrating with Jenson!"

What he actually said and did made him look like a sulky insecure teenager angry at his parents.


Think about it... Would Vettel go and sulk alone in Brazil 2011 because Webber won? Vettel "knows" he's better than Webber, he'd just say, "got me this time mate well done". Lewis SHOULD know he's faster than Button, so why act all weird like that?

I hate it, the guy is the fastest driver in F1, even drivers acknowledge this. When is he going to mature?

Even still at all races I shall still be rooting for him to win.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I specifically asked you why you think it was impossible for Hamilton to emerge from the pits in front of Perez at any point and give reasons why I dont think it was impossible.

After 16 laps what was the gap to Perez? Not enough.
Before that, there was no gap for Hamilton to pit early enough as Perez was staying out.
So stay out longer is what you wanted McLaren to do?

[Nando]

I hate it, the guy is the fastest driver in F1, even drivers acknowledge this. When is he going to mature?

Mature? The guy is mature.

He is a winner. Do you think Senna would say "well great job Prost! you just flied today and was untouchable, great job mate, bla bla bla"


No he wouldn´t, he would be pissed and considering him the second loser of the rest.
He said congrats to Jenson, is that not enough? Should he put on a fake smile instead and smile for the cameras?

I prefer him like this, an honest guy.

[flynfrog]

the logic Grizzlyboy displays would suggest that he is either a troll, or a woman...

Hamilton fan......

[Pup]

I specifically asked you why you think it was impossible for Hamilton to emerge from the pits in front of Perez at any point and give reasons why I dont think it was impossible.

The gap was never there. I argued the same thing as you yesterday, but I was wrong.

[gold333]

I hate it, the guy is the fastest driver in F1, even drivers acknowledge this. When is he going to mature?

Mature? The guy is mature.

He is a winner. Do you think Senna would say "well great job Prost! you just flied today and was untouchable, great job mate, bla bla bla"


No he wouldn´t, he would be pissed and considering him the second loser of the rest.
He said congrats to Jenson, is that not enough? Should he put on a fake smile instead and smile for the cameras?

I prefer him like this, an honest guy.

Your point is not a valid comparison.

Senna and Prost hated each other, ofcourse that is not going to happen.

Senna congratulated Mansell and even Berger as his teammate when they won though, and could still maintain a normal conversation.

Lewis and Jenson have no hatred at all so Lewis comes across as a boy and not a man when he sulks.

When Jenson loses to Lewis he puts on a brave smile, not sit there all weird when he loses like Lewis.

Lewis' body language just screams insecurity while there is no reason for it.