Mercedes thinks Red Bull is using illegal engine trick

[Pup]

He means that the engine didnt sound like it should. Off course engines always sound a bit different. But he means it doesnt sound like all the other teams which sounds is similair to MGP.

There's some irony there, no?

[GrizzleBoy]

He means that the engine didnt sound like it should. Off course engines always sound a bit different. But he means it doesnt sound like all the other teams which sounds is similair to MGP.

There's some irony there, no?

I don't get it

[Pup]

After the Pacific Grand Pix in '94, Senna accused Schumacher and Benetton and Brawn of cheating after sitting at a corner after getting knocked out of the race and hearing the characteristic ratcheting sound from Schumacher's traction control.

The second case of irony being yener helpfully explaining his point, while missing my point entirely.

[Ganxxta]

Well, first Bild.de is a rubbish source, its like the English SUN, they usually are right on the general idea of the info, but over exaggerate everything.
Second, after the "clarification" attempt from Redbull and Renault it was a matter of time until Mercedes fought back, so no surprise here.

[Ian P.]

No comment on the legality aspect, just a question as to ... WHY.

Since it seems to be all the renault engined cars, it is likely a Renault feature, not so much a Red Bull issue.
The possible common element is the Renault KERS system.
Could they be firing a couple of cylinders to counter the KERS charging drag when off throttle. This would help to balance the car and reduce the brake bias effect of the KERS system. Turn off KERS and you turn off the overrun cylinder firing.
KERS charging is not permitted to be used for brake control. This Renault feature may be another way to reduce the effect on braking, indirectly. An example "could" be the spin Alonso had on braking in Australia. In this case the car swapped ends entering the braking zone.
The other aspect is the exhaust blowing, but I doubt a couple of cylinders at (the permitted) 10% throttle open position would make a difference.

[Ganxxta]

Well basically the Bild article says that they(bild) know(!) that Redbull/Renault is shutting down some cylinders.

[lebesset]

personally I doubt it's illegal , but renault are no fools when it comes to F1 engines , as I said . I reckon they have come up with something

[yener]

After the Pacific Grand Pix in '94, Senna accused Schumacher and Benetton and Brawn of cheating after sitting at a corner after getting knocked out of the race and hearing the characteristic ratcheting sound from Schumacher's traction control.

The second case of irony being yener helpfully explaining his point, while missing my point entirely.

Wow i really missed the irony. Sorry

[yener]

Well, first Bild.de is a rubbish source, its like the English SUN, they usually are right on the general idea of the info, but over exaggerate everything.
Second, after the "clarification" attempt from Redbull and Renault it was a matter of time until Mercedes fought back, so no surprise here.

Believe me Mercedes is talking about the situation with FIA. Earlier this week Ross Brawn already said that RedBull and Renault are complaining about the FDuct to distract the attention from the "overrun sound" exhaust.

They are still blowing, just like their wings are still flexing. The reason they didnt officialy protest at FIA is because they cant prove anything.
Just like the Flexwing. Fia has a test, if you pass its legal.
Same story at the exhaust blowing. Nothing strange at exhaust map so its legal.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I think what Renault have done, is have an all out aggressive throttle map that's by product is blowing gases at a higher rate than before.

Last year we saw that blowing was allowed, but that you couldn't change the maps from quali to race day.
This year blowing is banned totally.

Now, with this in mind there should be astronomical fuel consumption as the engine is blowing or attempting to fight the inevitable drop in revs by feeding more fuel into the engine to keep it bubbling to the required amount(blown force in this instance).

What had Mercedes scratching their heads was how could Renault achieve this?
And after some checking it appears Renault are shutting down cylinders to save fuel!

I could be totally wrong, but I have a sneaking suspicion this is what Renault are up too.

[Blackout]

Renault is shutting 4 cylinders, 2 per ramp, and that produces a loud sound... nothing new. Caubet said that to some journos during Geneva auto Salon. RBR, Lotus and Williams, at least, use that 'trick'.

[Gridlock]

I think this is what you would call a trial balloon... I wonder what MB spends on advertising in Bild each year?

It does, however, bring a new light to that video of Schuey with his car after he went off. He spends a good amount of time standing by the track having a listen..

And yes, the irony is fantastic.

[yener]

MERCEDES SUSPECTS RED BULL USING 'ILLEGAL TRICK' - REPORT
Wednesday 21 March at 07:35 : Mar.21 (GMM) Hot on the heels of the new F-duct controversy, Mercedes has turned the heat back onto Red Bull.

Amid complaints from rival teams including Red Bull about its innovative aerodynamic concept aboard the W03, Mercedes' Ross Brawn admitted he sensed a diversionary tactic.

"The discussion about our system has diverted the focus from the exhaust issue," he said in Australia.

The FIA has clamped down hard on the exhaust-blown diffusers seen throughout the grid last year, but much pre-season chatter focused on some teams' post-ban 2012 solutions that reportedly fly close to the boundaries of the new rules.

But now Germany's Bild newspaper reports that Mercedes suspects Red Bull is also bending the rules in another area.

The report said Mercedes' sound analysis indicated Renault-powered Red Bull is deploying an "illegal engine trick", apparently involving the turning on and off of individual cylinders.

Mercedes' competition vice-president Norbert Haug commented: "There is no official protest by us. But there are some questions that we are asking the FIA."

Red Bull's Dr Helmut Marko hit back: "No one will find anything. We comply with the rules."

German specialist magazine Auto Motor und Sport, meanwhile, reports that Melbourne winner McLaren currently has the most sophisticated exhaust solution on the 2012 grid.

"I wouldn't say that it's illegal," said Peter Sauber, "but it's borderline."

Teams including Mercedes, Lotus, Toro Rosso and Williams reportedly used much more conservative solutions in Australia.

"First we wanted to see what is allowed and what is not," said Williams engineer Mark Gillan.

[Gridlock]

Do they use selective cylinder shutdown in the pit lane map?

Could that be a culprit?

[manchild]

Brawn is now becoming saint daring to point out his finger based on sound of another car?!

This man has no shame at all. After what he has done during 1994. followed by his Ferrari days and DDD exclusivity for his own team.

Perhaps someone could "eardrop" to recordings of B194, and check what MoSSley fixed up in his favor over the years.

There's a lot of pissed people out there, and some just might be in position and have power to launch investigation of events that took place during MoSSley's regime, beginning with season 1994.