Jackie Stewart imparting some wisdom.

[Giblet]

When I watched this video I was running Spa in my iRacing league, in a Skip Barber RT2000 with street tires. Still open wheel, not super fast, but a momentum car for sure.

I tried to follow what he said, and slowed myself down, and really concentrated on the brake release. I am pretty good with progressive throttle and braking, but the 7/10ths I found on my first flying lap were not anywhere to be found before.

I also kept myself in a gear 1 higher than I was before, and often it felt slower and my speed delta was in the red at corner entry due to the earlier braking, but I was green on apex and exit almost every time.

It was eye opening to say the least.

[PlatinumZealot]

How do you mean "momentum car?"

Lower grip/relatively lower power cars NEED the best line through the corner in order to not lose a bunch of time as they dont have the ability to accelerate out of the corner as hard or as early. Slow down too much because you're on the wrong part of the track and pay in the time it takes to get back upto speed.

A modern F1 car can simply slide its rear wheels through a turn, point its nose in the right direction, put down the RPMs and blast its way out of a less than ideal line without too much problems.

So in the old days.
less power
less down force
weaker tyres

I understand that. momentum driving as you say. But I disagree with your second paragraph.

[Giblet]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... gSiK_VarK8#!

He looks sorta chatty, self righteous and douchie in his younger days... hmm..

If all you got out of that was "chatty self righteous douche" that is a shame to say the least.

[Giblet]

Momentum car means that it does not have enough power to make up for slower corners.

If you don't keep as much speed into and through a corner, you will end up slow on exit with no way to go faster.

Spa has a trick... on your out lap, take the last turn very very wide, it adds many meters to the final corner, and allows a faster flying lap for quali as you cross the line going faster. Useless in the race, as you have to sacrifice a lap to make the next one faster.

[JimClarkFan]

When I watched this video I was running Spa in my iRacing league, in a Skip Barber RT2000 with street tires. Still open wheel, not super fast, but a momentum car for sure.

I tried to follow what he said, and slowed myself down, and really concentrated on the brake release. I am pretty good with progressive throttle and braking, but the 7/10ths I found on my first flying lap were not anywhere to be found before.

I also kept myself in a gear 1 higher than I was before, and often it felt slower and my speed delta was in the red at corner entry due to the earlier braking, but I was green on apex and exit almost every time.

It was eye opening to say the least.

Interesting stuff

Could you not have kept the car in a lower gear and just extended the time spent in high revs? I'd imagine that with a slower entry you would be limiting acceleration with the higher gear, not to mention that the car sometimes seems to pull you at the higher gear?

Basically what I'm saying is that I would like more details please

Edited*

[Giblet]

While in a race with someone on my butt, I would downshift 1 more gear so I could brake later and not allow him to out-brake me and gain position. Racing someone is usually a bit slower than lapping in clean air.

But for lap times, in this car, my average speed throughout the whole sector will be better than if I went to the lower gear.

This seems to only work in this car when taking 3rd and 4th gear corners. Being in a higher gear, or short shifting, means that the car will be putting down even power with no wheelspin, since its a higher speed corner and the car does not have enough power to snap the wheels loose in the rear. When in 3rd in the same corner, I have more power and and am higher in the rev range, but I am feathering the throttle instead of keeping in it so the rear doesn't come all the way around. If I do that, I

In lower speed corners, the car has enough guts to rotate the rear in 1st, 2nd, and the 3rd if you break the wheels loose at the beginning of the gear.

The other thing I noticed is that my tires were heating up less, because I was sliding less, and towards the end of the race distance I was running in practice, my tires were in good shape and not starting to slide.

Simply, and F1 car can accelerate almost as fast as it can slow down. In a momentum car, the brakes can slow you down far faster than its ability to accelerate. The brakes become the enemy.

Speed in = speed out.

[PlatinumZealot]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... gSiK_VarK8#!

He looks sorta chatty, self righteous and douchie in his younger days... hmm..

If all you got out of that was "chatty self righteous douche" that is a shame to say the least.

I watching at work with the volume low. Only watching his movements and they looked douchie. I just watched the video at home, with sound, and yeah.. I change my mind.. he's not a douche.

but I still think he's still a chatty and self righteous!

Anyway. What he said was very intriguing. "The fastest way around Monaco is the slowest." I really wonder if it applies to modern day F1.

[JimClarkFan]

While in a race with someone on my butt, I would downshift 1 more gear so I could brake later and not allow him to out-brake me and gain position. Racing someone is usually a bit slower than lapping in clean air.

But for lap times, in this car, my average speed throughout the whole sector will be better than if I went to the lower gear.

This seems to only work in this car when taking 3rd and 4th gear corners. Being in a higher gear, or short shifting, means that the car will be putting down even power with no wheelspin, since its a higher speed corner and the car does not have enough power to snap the wheels loose in the rear. When in 3rd in the same corner, I have more power and and am higher in the rev range, but I am feathering the throttle instead of keeping in it so the rear doesn't come all the way around. If I do that, I

In lower speed corners, the car has enough guts to rotate the rear in 1st, 2nd, and the 3rd if you break the wheels loose at the beginning of the gear.

The other thing I noticed is that my tires were heating up less, because I was sliding less, and towards the end of the race distance I was running in practice, my tires were in good shape and not starting to slide.

Simply, and F1 car can accelerate almost as fast as it can slow down. In a momentum car, the brakes can slow you down far faster than its ability to accelerate. The brakes become the enemy.

Speed in = speed out.

Good reading.

Do you think there is a way to get the best of both world, i.e. braking very late and hard, releasing slowly and cornering in a high gear whilst bringing in the throttle?

What kind of racing do you do - I'd love to do more racing, money won't allow it though.

[Giblet]

Understand first I am no wiz or alien driver. I am 2nd in my division out of 150 people or so. But I am in div 8 of 10, there are 7 levels and about 1000 people above me. Take what I say with a grain of salt as I am not the fastest stick out there, and I am really not very good at setting up a car outside of tire pressures and brake balance. I can turn pretty consistent laps and usually place in the top half. My incident count is also too high right now, but is dropping progressively season on season.

I did say it was iRacing. It's the most realistic sim for home available, but it is still a sim. Jackie's advice helped me a lot because the skills needed are exactly the same.

To answer your question no matter what you do in the kind of momentum driving I am talking about, your enemy is 'scrubbing off speed'. Lots of tire noise and throttle hammering looks quick, and it is when you have 800hp and can force the car to do things. When you have 135 and an 1100 pound car, it is for sure a race car, but it won't exactly chirp the tires slamming into 3rd.

Like Clarkson says watching laps on top gear, sometimes the slowest looking laps are the fastest.

[raymondu999]

Do you think there is a way to get the best of both world, i.e. braking very late and hard, releasing slowly and cornering in a high gear whilst bringing in the throttle?

That's really what trail braking is (sort of) for, isn't it?

[JimClarkFan]

Understand first I am no wiz or alien driver. I am 2nd in my division out of 150 people or so. But I am in div 8 of 10, there are 7 levels and about 1000 people above me. Take what I say with a grain of salt as I am not the fastest stick out there, and I am really not very good at setting up a car outside of tire pressures and brake balance. I can turn pretty consistent laps and usually place in the top half. My incident count is also too high right now, but is dropping progressively season on season.

I did say it was iRacing. It's the most realistic sim for home available, but it is still a sim. Jackie's advice helped me a lot because the skills needed are exactly the same.

To answer your question no matter what you do in the kind of momentum driving I am talking about, your enemy is 'scrubbing off speed'. Lots of tire noise and throttle hammering looks quick, and it is when you have 800hp and can force the car to do things. When you have 135 and an 1100 pound car, it is for sure a race car, but it won't exactly chirp the tires slamming into 3rd.

Like Clarkson says watching laps on top gear, sometimes the slowest looking laps are the fastest.

Yes I'm gonna go back and look at some of those laps, shame you can't get the onboard view so I could compare what exactly is being done behind the wheel between those who are going fast vs slow.

Do you think there is a way to get the best of both world, i.e. braking very late and hard, releasing slowly and cornering in a high gear whilst bringing in the throttle?

That's really what trail braking is (sort of) for, isn't it?

I'm afraid I have no idea.

[raymondu999]

Here's a thread just on it: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11603

[jamsbong]

I like the way Jackie explains, thus his ability to coach others.
He is a genuine talent who can teach.
His philosophy is very useful on unfamiliar roads, fast corners and low/unpreditable grip level. The hard brake, apex, and hard out method is good when there is "unlimited" grip on a quali lap.

I suspect Sebastian Loeb has the same moto. Just watch the way he drives the DS3, it looks so calm and boring! but when you check his times, it are simply amazing.

[raymondu999]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L_EjKVKVW0[/youtube]

Check out the surprise off-screen cameo too (Jackie calls his name but his face never makes the screen)

[PlatinumZealot]

Lord Jesus I agree with Jackie again! Wise words!

Stewart hopes Bahrain goes ahead

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/videos/2069/ ... oes-ahead/