Scuderia Ferrari 2012

[WhiteBlue]

Very little logic in that proposal. Newey will not fit into the Italian team and he loves the comforts of living at home in England. Red Bull have given him a team that is 100% organized to his every whim. He can run it as if he owns it. On top they pay him obscene money like a top driver salary. Whatever Ferrari offer Mateschitz will always top it because he will not allow Ferrari to buy the guy away. The Red bull exhaust solution may not be on McLaren level but it is by no means as bad as Ferrari's. Ferrari will never get Newey IMHO.

Logic when discussing what Newey might want to do to finish his career?
Sure he´s turned down the offers but considering that he probably won´t be around for many more years i´d say that there´s still a chance he would want to design some Ferrari cars.

He´s been with the biggest teams, why would he not go to Ferrari?
"doesn´t fit in" seems vague as the whole team would eat grapes from his palm if he´d ever come around.

You are not addressing a single substantial point that I have made.

• Money will not be an issue because Mateschitz will always pay more or the same as Ferrari
• Newey is known to hate working abroad
• Ferrari isn't likely to give him total control of the team as Red Bull does. Newey has been very vocal about his total power at Red Bull and that he likes it.
• Working for a legendary but treacherous team holds no appeal to Newey. He seeks fame by building his own team around him. Ross Brawn and Jean Todt show that Ferrari will never honour strong foreigners. They kick em in the balls as soon as convenient.

[raymondu999]

Newey is known to hate working abroad

he even commutes to Milton Keynes. He still lives in the UK, but he doesn't even want to move cities, let alone countries.

[munudeges]

umpteen? Really? Who? What top aerodynamicist have Ferrari recruited that had their fair share of success at other teams?

John Iley for one, and Harvey Postlethwaite and Jean-Claude Migeot if you want to go back even further, as well as dozens recruited in minor positions over the years as they knee-jerk into decisions. They pulled in several McLaren employees over the winter, a lot in aerodynamics. Everyone moves teams at some point, but Ferrari seem to have these top-down recruitment drives. The kicker is that their de-facto Technical Director has no background in aerodynamics at all.

Personally, I think they'd be better off hiring a decent mechanical engineer as a Chief Designer, moving Tombazis back to aerodynamics or even giving him the TD job and starting from there.

[donskar]

I think Ascanelli more likely than Newey.

They have (reportedly) tried to get Ascanelli before. He would seem to be a good fit -- Italian, experienced, heading up a team not doing well, and (possibly) has had some insight to Newey's methods and knowledge.

[raymondu999]

Agreed. Does anyone know how he, Newey, Marshall and Prodromou juggled duties before 2010? When the STR was still a hand-me-down car, that is.

[Gerhard Berger]

reading this it seems a long way to go...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17710720

yep, we may well have to wait for 2013 before the full effect of the changes that Fry has made start paying dividends. I would still like to see alot of progress this year just to give us the assurance that we are on the right track.

[Gerhard Berger]

I think Ascanelli more likely than Newey.

They have (reportedly) tried to get Ascanelli before. He would seem to be a good fit -- Italian, experienced, heading up a team not doing well, and (possibly) has had some insight to Newey's methods and knowledge.

He also used to be with us (as head of on track operations). However he doesn't have a strong background in aerodynamics.

Would rather we went for someone like Allison or Prodromou.

[Nando]

• Money will not be an issue because Mateschitz will always pay more or the same as Ferrari
• Newey is known to hate working abroad
• Ferrari isn't likely to give him total control of the team as Red Bull does. Newey has been very vocal about his total power at Red Bull and that he likes it.
• Working for a legendary but treacherous team holds no appeal to Newey. He seeks fame by building his own team around him. Ross Brawn and Jean Todt show that Ferrari will never honour strong foreigners. They kick em in the balls as soon as convenient.

Newey has plenty of money though and i´m sure Newey can control what he wants.
He´s hired by Dietrich not enslaved

Why would you not think that? Surely Ferrari has seen what he can do over the years.
Ferrari is right now doing everything they can to make the team better in all areas.
So someone is calling the shots on who to hire, what to design, etc.
If Newey came into Ferrari and they still are in this hard times i can´t see how they would not give him the key to the Ferrari building and just say "please help us, do what the hell you can Newey"

Well he has worked for two of the most legendary teams already so something appeals to him for sure.
Otherwise he probably would have worked at HRT and "build" that team around him.

Elaborate on the Ross Brawn, Jean Todt thing. For me they are synonymous with Ferrari.
And i´m sure every tifosi appreciates what they accomplished.

[raymondu999]

Well he has worked for two of the most legendary teams already so something appeals to him for sure.

He left in unhappy marriages in both though. He didn't like fitting into others systems. He wanted to build his own system from the ground up.

[Nando]

He left in unhappy marriages in both though. He didn't like fitting into others systems. He wanted to build his own system from the ground up.

Well he stayed awfully long in Mclaren for example, near 10 years or so.

Either way, i hope he goes to Ferrari before he quits..

Just imagine him and Byrne having chat in some room at the italian headquarters designing and discussing the latest Ferrari.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

umpteen? Really? Who? What top aerodynamicist have Ferrari recruited that had their fair share of success at other teams?

John Iley for one, and Harvey Postlethwaite and Jean-Claude Migeot if you want to go back even further, as well as dozens recruited in minor positions over the years as they knee-jerk into decisions. They pulled in several McLaren employees over the winter, a lot in aerodynamics. Everyone moves teams at some point, but Ferrari seem to have these top-down recruitment drives. The kicker is that their de-facto Technical Director has no background in aerodynamics at all.

Personally, I think they'd be better off hiring a decent mechanical engineer as a Chief Designer, moving Tombazis back to aerodynamics or even giving him the TD job and starting from there.

Iley was around when we had good cars & was fired after the F60 wasn't great, it should be said he worked with Byrne so I wouldn't attribute success solely to him and I'd say more contributed to Byrne. He went to Mclaren & quickly went to Caterham.
My point is Ferrari aerodynamics is lacking and Tombazis needs help. Ferrari needs a top aerodynamicist like Prodromou. But as Pat Fry suggested this week they also need to change their methodologies & the way the work. It will happen but will take time.

[WhiteBlue]

• Money will not be an issue because Mateschitz will always pay more or the same as Ferrari
• Newey is known to hate working abroad
• Ferrari isn't likely to give him total control of the team as Red Bull does. Newey has been very vocal about his total power at Red Bull and that he likes it.
• Working for a legendary but treacherous team holds no appeal to Newey. He seeks fame by building his own team around him. Ross Brawn and Jean Todt show that Ferrari will never honour strong foreigners. They kick em in the balls as soon as convenient.

Elaborate on the Ross Brawn, Jean Todt thing. For me they are synonymous with Ferrari.
And i´m sure every tifosi appreciates what they accomplished.

I'm sure that neither Brawn nor Todt were particularly happy about the way they were treated by Montezemolo. I'm also pretty sure that other good managers and engineers took notice of what was done to them. Whatever good you do for Ferrari you will always have to protect yourself against back stabbing and being kicked in the balls by their pompous president, at least as long as Monte carries on.

[amouzouris]

We mustn't forget though that newey's mclarens were humiliated by byrne's ferraris...and although he is not the TD now...I think that fry is still getting help from him...

[bhall]

I think any leader of Ferrari is going to be like Montezemolo. Right or wrong, the position carries quite a bit of responsibility; Ferrari is an iconic marque both in racing and the automotive world in general. And to be completely fair, you really can't argue with the success Montezemolo has orchestrated in his time with the company. Even if it was just bringing in the right people for the right jobs, his vision completely turned Ferrari around in every phase of its operation.

If he really wants Newey, he'll get him. But as a tifoso, I don't want Newey; I want to beat Newey.

[Nando]

• Money will not be an issue because Mateschitz will always pay more or the same as Ferrari
• Newey is known to hate working abroad
• Ferrari isn't likely to give him total control of the team as Red Bull does. Newey has been very vocal about his total power at Red Bull and that he likes it.
• Working for a legendary but treacherous team holds no appeal to Newey. He seeks fame by building his own team around him. Ross Brawn and Jean Todt show that Ferrari will never honour strong foreigners. They kick em in the balls as soon as convenient.

Elaborate on the Ross Brawn, Jean Todt thing. For me they are synonymous with Ferrari.
And i´m sure every tifosi appreciates what they accomplished.

I'm sure that neither Brawn nor Todt were particularly happy about the way they were treated by Montezemolo. I'm also pretty sure that other good managers and engineers took notice of what was done to them. Whatever good you do for Ferrari you will always have to protect yourself against back stabbing and being kicked in the balls by their pompous president, at least as long as Monte carries on.

How were they treated? is there somewhere i can read up on the dark side of this?

edit: or is this another media BS like Hamilton and Alonso being enemies till the day they die?