Could not going to testing have compromised Jenson Button?

[PlatinumZealot]

unbalanced equating to fastest, possible... but unbalanced equating to being the only guy who managed a 2 stopper, while others were struggling on a 3 stopper while also moving from 24th to 8th? I would imagine these tyres Pirelli fabricate from what is most likely some form of cheese, possibly brie, would not go well with turning the car on the rear axle and riding on the limit for any great deal of time.

That was what Hamilton fans the world over were saying, then Schumacher came out and said it and he wash bashed. How ironic that everyone is on the same boat now.

Anyway, Aerobalance + grip balance doesn't have to be equal for longest tyre life. I haven't really heard any reference to that before, but it would be interesting to investigate.

[ParanoiD]

I remember reading somewhere that Lewis is less sensitive to changes and Button is very sensitive to changes.

Examples given was when there was a change of wind direction which cause change in downforce level and Jenson immidiately "spooked" by that immidiate changes which affect his driving, while Lewis just drive as he did.

Maybe with the new nose, there was some changes that Button felt and compromise his driving.

[Nando]

Did he not try the old nose as well in Practice?

Some make it sound Button all of sudden lost the ability to be competitive in a good car.
Remember he has driven this track several times before, he was third behind Hamilton last year.
He was one tenth away from Lewis in Australia. 2 or 3 tenths away from him in Malaysia.

It´s pretty obvious he could not get the car dialed in at all.
I´m positive he will be back in Monaco with the much softer compounds.

[horse]

Returning to the original question, I would have said before the race that McLaren made the right decision to run the test drivers, as they will have an important role to play going forward. Then the race weekend pays back massively for those that took the most care in the test (which according to Gary Anderson was Williams) and you wonder if the McLaren drivers should have been in the car after all.

It's just such a crazy season, with so many different cars winning and some huge weekend dependant gaps between the drivers. Why couldn't Senna drive to Maldonados pace, or Massa to Alonso, or Schumacher to Rosberg (I know this seems like a bunch of B-listers but bear with me)? The most consistent car seems to be the Lotus, but then it doesn't win.

There really is a weirdness about the tyres and Lewis really had them right at the weekend and I think should have won. Button and his engineers are missing an ingredient to fix it. Button is fast when the tyres are working for him, but he can't make them work for him (with a bad setup), it just has to happen.

It wouldn't surprise me if the McLarens 1-2 at Monaco, though. I think the car will go well there, based on the Australia performance. I don't know beyond that. Should they start thinking about bringing aero packages for the tyres rather than the circuit, maybe?

[JimClarkFan]

I'm a Jenson fan but his single biggest weakness is his inability to drive fast in a car that isn't set up to his liking which is why he is great for a team looking to develop a car because he needs a balanced set up.

Hamilton just gets in the thing and drives, and unlike last year Hamilton is performing really well, with little excuses and is my tip for the title if the team can stop making stupid mistake. The points don't suggest it but he has been the most consistent driver this year.

On that note, this is what is so exceptional about Alonso, dog of a car, out qualifying his car by a good several position and is by far the best racers in F1 at the moment.

[ringo]

I remember reading somewhere that Lewis is less sensitive to changes and Button is very sensitive to changes.

Examples given was when there was a change of wind direction which cause change in downforce level and Jenson immidiately "spooked" by that immidiate changes which affect his driving, while Lewis just drive as he did.

Maybe with the new nose, there was some changes that Button felt and compromise his driving.

i dont really buy that.
I feel they are equally sensitive, ie they both can feel what is happening, but one's driving ability or confidence is less affected by the changes to the track and the car.
If both were doing a crossword puzzle with a feather being jammed up their nostrils, Lewis would be less distracted from it and get on with the puzzle. Call it talent or whatever, but Jenson is not the same class of driver.

[ringo]

On that note, this is what is so exceptional about Alonso, dog of a car, out qualifying his car by a good several position and is by far the best racers in F1 at the moment.

Alonso's ferrari is a much better car than it started out as. He also has the whole team behind him and fellipe is his foot stool . So he has all the reasons to be doing so well. If you look back on all the races so far, he's been driving out of his skin yes, but then again he's not really doing anything miraculous outside of driving the car as fast as it can go. It's all in the tyres on the day, which is why testing for button wouldnt make much sense.
Improvements to setup fo Button may only have worked at mugello and nowhere else.

[raymondu999]

What exactly can a driver do other than driving a car as fast as it can go? That's about it really, other than not sticking himself into another car's sidepod or try to mate with another car's gearbox. If that's not enough, then that's not enough.

[myurr]

What exactly can a driver do other than driving a car as fast as it can go? That's about it really, other than not sticking himself into another car's sidepod or try to mate with another car's gearbox. If that's not enough, then that's not enough.

For me it's more how they cope with off days and poor setup - can they still extract good performance from the car? Alonso has been very consistent all season, being quick in every race. Some of that may be that other cars are drifting out the sweet spot on setup between quali and the race levelling the field. But he is putting in consistently high quality drives. He and the team lost the last race though through a tactical error - he should have pitted immediately after Maldonado to at least try and retain track position.

The only other driver who I think has been as consistent is Hamilton. Australia was his only slightly off performance where it's now clear that the tyres simply dropped outside their optimal window, but he still would have finished second if not for an unfortunately timed safety car and botched pit stop. In every other race he's been right there on pace both in qualifying and the race and has only had poor finishing positions due to team errors and mistakes.

Vettel, to his credit, would probably be next in my list. I don't think he's particularly shone this year, especially in qualifying where Webber has been matching or beating him for the most part, but he's normally had the stronger showing in the race.

To bring the discussion back on topic my view is that missing the test didn't do anything to affect Button's performance. The setup seems to be so circuit and weather specific that they wouldn't have learnt anything specific that would have helped him in Spain, and while testing the new components would have removed a little distraction in the overall scheme of things I don't think that had a material effect on his performance.

[Nando]

Hamilton is the only one with 3 podiums, and him an Alonso are the only two with 5 point finishes.

Then it´s only him, grosjean and Rosberg who has always made it into Q3.
Only thing he´s lacking is a race win.

[JimClarkFan]

On that note, this is what is so exceptional about Alonso, dog of a car, out qualifying his car by a good several position and is by far the best racers in F1 at the moment.

Alonso's ferrari is a much better car than it started out as. He also has the whole team behind him and fellipe is his foot stool . So he has all the reasons to be doing so well. If you look back on all the races so far, he's been driving out of his skin yes, but then again he's not really doing anything miraculous outside of driving the car as fast as it can go. It's all in the tyres on the day, which is why testing for button wouldnt make much sense.
Improvements to setup fo Button may only have worked at mugello and nowhere else.

It was much improved this weekend, but in the 4 preceding GP's Mclaren, Red Bull, Lotus, Mercedes, Sauber and perhaps the Williams were all arguably better than the Ferrari.

I think you've done Alonso some what of a disservice although admittedly is harder to judge when Massa is just so bad in the other car.

Hamilton is the only one with 3 podiums, and him an Alonso are the only two with 5 point finishes.

Then it´s only him, grosjean and Rosberg who has always made it into Q3.
Only thing he´s lacking is a race win.

Hamilton has his mojo back this year, no doubt.

[raymondu999]

Hamilton is the only one with 3 podiums, and him an Alonso are the only two with 5 point finishes.

To be honest I'm not sure this really is the time to talk about that just yet - what matters right now is not how they gained their points, it's how much they have.

[Shrieker]

Raymond don't you think that not taking how those points are earned into account will eventually lead to wrong a estimation in case you want one ? Hamilton's China and Spain performances were race winning (convincingly) but he was put back on the grid due to circumstances outside his own control. The other teams definitely need to make inroads on McLaren or Lewis is gonna run away with it.

[Nando]

Agree. You should not stare yourself blind on the points as there have been circumstances that was out of Hamilton´s control.

Without those he would probably have a bit of a cushion to the 2nd place guy so i think right now it´s a much better way of looking at the performance of the drivers instead of the points.

He has only done one mistake this year and that mistake should have given him a 2nd place position but of course Mclaren messed it up and he came third. But apart from that he has done no mistakes this season at all.

[GrizzleBoy]

Okay guys, so for the second race weekend in a row immediately after testing, Jenson has been unable to get his car into Q3.

From the beginning of the season till Bahrain, the McLarens have both had pretty close pace.

Both were fast in Australia, seperated only by McLaren pit stop issues.

Both were fast in Malaysia, seperated only by Buttons mistake with Karthikeyan.

Both were fast in China, seperated only by gearbox change penalty for Lewis and McLaren pit stop issues.

Both had pace issues in Bahrain, seperated only by McLaren pit stop issues.

Then we had a break for testing. The new nose has only a sneaky single run by one of the McLaren testers which noone even noticed till a few days later.

In Spain, Button doesn't get into Q3 and only just finishes in the points while Lewis puts it on pole and finishes ahead of Button despite starting dead last.

In Monaco, Button once again cant get into Q3 and it's not due to a lack of trying as he definately put the laps in on his Q2 tyres.

Surely there is a pattern to see now?

Surely?