The end of days for Saab

[Richard]

I noted the aero engine companies separately from the aircraft companies.

You'll see that BMW was founded by merging aircraft manufactures http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... ly_history

[ds.raikkonen]

I noted the aero engine companies separately from the aircraft companies.

You'll see that BMW was founded by merging aircraft manufactures http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... ly_history

I do appreciate it mate interesting stuff indeed, especially the merger you just mentioned.

[Richard]

Not forgetting Korea Aerospace Industries was founded by Hyundi, Daewoo and Samsung - 2 of whom are known for making cars. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_Aerospace_Industries

WW2 had a lot to do with forcing car companies into military production, then demilitarisation forced military companies into civilian production (either by force for axis powers or a need to diversify like SAAB).

The Japanese and Korean examples are easy because they have huge conglomerates who make just about everything.

[ds.raikkonen]

Not forgetting Korea Aerospace Industries was founded by Hyundi, Daewoo and Samsung - 2 of whom are known for making cars. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_Aerospace_Industries

Damn, the list just gets bigger and bigger. So even you missed that one eh? I hate Hyundais though and Daewoo went bust and GM bought them.

[Richard]

Anyway, if we ignore all those other companies (and I may have missed a few others) then I agree that we can fondly remember SAAB as having unique history as a company that made both planes and cars.

[ds.raikkonen]

WW2 had a lot to do with forcing car companies into military production, then demilitarisation forced military companies into civilian production (either by force for axis powers or a need to diversify like SAAB)

Correct, even the M4 Sherman tanks used during WWII were made by Chrysler. Almost 50000 were produced MAN used to make Panzer Mk. V 'Panther' tanks.

Anyway, if we ignore all those other companies (and I may have missed a few others) then I agree that we can fondly remember SAAB as having unique history as a company that made both planes and cars.

Yeah, more importantly, SAAB was among the few companies which made both cars and aircraft in 'recent times' (even branded their cars as fighter jets!). Their adverts almost always had a delta-winged Viggen in the background. Not to mention, the dim switch for center console, which was not exactly useful for road cars. And, it is one of the rare companies where the fact that it could be privately held or publicly traded was included in the name (the 'AB' at the end), weird. I believe Mahindra and Mahindra and China's Youngman were bidding for SAAB in the $300-400 million range, whatever happened to that? It was probable that the Chinese would win in the end.

[Richard]

Ah yes, those fighter plane adverts. I recall they were used when SAAB were part of GM and producing cars based on the Opel platforms?

The console dim button was silly on the later 9-3. The speedometer would only illuminate up to 80mph and all the other instruments would switch off (fuel needle dropped to zero!). However the air con and radio panels remained fully illuminated.

The Chinese bids failed because GM only license key technologies to SAAB, they are not owned by SAAB. So GM refused to let the designs go to a competitor. That means a Chinese company could buy SAAB and the production lines, but not be allowed to use the existing platforms or drive train designs that are owned by GM.

[xpensive]

...
WW2 had a lot to do with forcing car companies into military production, then demilitarisation forced military companies into civilian production (either by force for axis powers or a need to diversify like SAAB).
...

Porsche was bidding for the Panzer VI (Tiger) and Hugo Boss designed Wehrmacht's uniforms.

[ds.raikkonen]

Ah yes, those fighter plane adverts. I recall they were used when SAAB were part of GM and producing cars based on the Opel platforms?

The console dim button was silly on the later 9-3. The speedometer would only illuminate up to 80mph and all the other instruments would switch off (fuel needle dropped to zero!). However the air con and radio panels remained fully illuminated.

The Chinese bids failed because GM only license key technologies to SAAB, they are not owned by SAAB. So GM refused to let the designs go to a competitor. That means a Chinese company could buy SAAB and the production lines, but not be allowed to use the existing platforms or drive train designs that are owned by GM.

Yeah, the 9-3 was based on GM's Epsilon platform, which was shared by the Vectra, BLS and Malibu. That console dim button was really a silly idea, who on Earth did the market research on that one?!
So the Chinese can own SAAB after all, I am not overly enthusiastic about that. Even BMW looks like in the hunt for SAAB according to: http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012 ... -saab.html

[Richard]

More to the point, they can buy the production line but not produce a chassis or drive train. Who'd want that?

GM will only let SAAB run as an independent manufacturer and the last 2 years has shown that isn't going to work.

[Richard]

Doh! How did we forget Spyker in that list? The original company made planes and cars, hence the propeller logo.

[ds.raikkonen]

We did indeed! Amazing how weak my re-collecting abilities have become, only remember BMW when someone talks about a propeller (that too, when it is actually the flag of Bavaria!). However, Spyker used to produce aircraft ages ago and is now merely a shadow of its former self. Caters to a niche segment of super-crazy buyers! The C8 and the C12 can hardly be described as subtle in styling, they even remind me of the TVRs. Even the ownership of Spyker is uncertain right now, I just checked, it was to be sold off by Swedish Automobile to North Street Capital, LP for $41m but the transaction still has not been done.

[Richard]

Spyker used to produce aircraft ages ago and is now merely a shadow of its former self.

It's not even a shadow of its former self, it no longer exists. The original Spyker company died in 1926.

The current company with the Spyker name was simply a result of Victor Muller and Maarten de Bruijn picking a nice name in 1999.

[ds.raikkonen]

It's not even a shadow of its former self, it no longer exists. The original Spyker company died in 1926.

The current company with the Spyker name was simply a result of Victor Muller and Maarten de Bruijn picking a nice name in 1999.

Correct. However, the new company, owned by those two, uses the 'propeller' logo and has made a number of cars powered by Audi engines. In that way, I felt as if they want the heritage of the new company to be in-line with the original 'Spyker' company.

[Pup]

The console dim button was silly on the later 9-3. The speedometer would only illuminate up to 80mph and all the other instruments would switch off (fuel needle dropped to zero!). However the air con and radio panels remained fully illuminated.

Actually, the night panel was one of my favorite things about my Viggen. It made a huge difference on the highway at night. The other gauges would light up automatically if there was a problem, and I don't remember the other lights being obtrusive. You could dim them to zero anyway if you wanted. In fact, I remember all of the dash lighting being really easy on the eyes. So much better than my wife's merc, which uses a really harsh white for the dials, and my BMW, that has god-awful orange lighting that can only be dimmed from supernova to thermonuclear weapon.