Embarrassment for Hamilton? The Reborn Button...

[ajdavison2]

I've thought this for a while and I think the problem is Whitmarsh, he just seems to political whenever he gets interviewed, never wanting to say anything that might rub anyone else (his own and other teams included) the wrong way. I get the impression that big ron wouldn't have taken any BS when it was his Mclaren. He always seemed like a very firm leader to me, Whitmarsh just seems to worried about upsetting someone. He reminds me of the parent figure who when the child gets sent to their room, brings them some pizza and says don't tell your mam . IMO

[Red Schneider]

The way they said it strongly implies the fragility of the bonds that tie them together. If I were Button I think I would be quite offended. He shouldn't be treated like a petulant child.

he has also criticized Mclarens ability to think on their feet in the past and I completely agree.

I read something about this somewhere too. It might have been on the McLaren Wikipedia page years ago. The writer (presumably this was reputably sourced) was contrasting McLaren and Ferrari culturally, and he said that McLaren was an extremely data-driven team, while Ferrari relied more on gut feel. One of the ways this manifested itself is that in critical race situations where important decisions need to be made, Ferrari would decisively make the decision while McLaren would go into paralysis by analysis. As long as Ferrari had the right people in charge it worked beautifully.

This is just one reason I've found myself drifting over to the red side in the last few years. I supported McLaren but it slowly dawned on me that they lack killer instinct. The team orders saga from Hockenheim 2010 was more of the same. Whitmash was acting all holier-than-thou about driver equality. Ferrari went for the jugular. One of them is the most successful team in history while the other has collected second-place finishes like it's going out of style the last 15 years.

[JimClarkFan]

Perhaps we are reading into what may have been a slip of the tongue, if that is the way it was meant to come across I would be pretty angry if I was Button as well.

You are right about Mclaren, they don't seem to be able to instinctively make calls during a race. Contrast that to Red Bull or Ferrari who make very few tactical mistakes.

Part of me also thinks it is Whitmarsh's problem too, although he is not directly responsible for the continuing pit stop problems (I'm a bag of nerves now at every Mclaren stop) he is ultimately responsible any cock up made by the team, especially when we see the same cock up happening time and time again. He needs grab the team by the scruff, sort out the multitude of problems they have. Every team has mistakes but for some reason at Mclaren these mistakes always seem to be amplified, and every small problems ends up being a big one. They are their own worst enemy.

[lebesset]

The way they said it strongly implies the fragility of the bonds that tie them together. If I were Button I think I would be quite offended. He shouldn't be treated like a petulant child.

he has also criticized Mclarens ability to think on their feet in the past and I completely agree.

I read something about this somewhere too. It might have been on the McLaren Wikipedia page years ago. The writer (presumably this was reputably sourced) was contrasting McLaren and Ferrari culturally, and he said that McLaren was an extremely data-driven team, while Ferrari relied more on gut feel. One of the ways this manifested itself is that in critical race situations where important decisions need to be made, Ferrari would decisively make the decision while McLaren would go into paralysis by analysis. As long as Ferrari had the right people in charge it worked beautifully.

This is just one reason I've found myself drifting over to the red side in the last few years. I supported McLaren but it slowly dawned on me that they lack killer instinct. The team orders saga from Hockenheim 2010 was more of the same. Whitmash was acting all holier-than-thou about driver equality. Ferrari went for the jugular. One of them is the most successful team in history while the other has collected second-place finishes like it's going out of style the last 15 years.

yep , just had typical example in canada ; ferrari make the gut feel decision , and McL made the data driven decision

hang on , didn't McL come home with the win ?

[Pup]

Well sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Personally, I think think that on the whole they put too much faith in (inevitably incomplete) data. Or rather, if what is happening on track doesn't match their model, then they seem to be a bit at sea.

Part of me also thinks it is Whitmarsh's problem too, although he is not directly responsible for the continuing pit stop problems (I'm a bag of nerves now at every Mclaren stop) he is ultimately responsible any cock up made by the team, especially when we see the same cock up happening time and time again.

If I'm not mistaken, Sam Michael is directly responsible for the pit stops, isn't he?

[Just_a_fan]

Just to add to my post above, the exact words to Jenson via radio after the race were:

Well Jenson, there's not much we can say about that. We have to go back to base and really sit down and think about this because that's not what either of us needed.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me. They're saying "hey, look, you're a World Champion and your team mate has made you look very silly today. We need to go back to basics and sort out why you're struggling with the car and then rebuild from there".

Which is exactly what should be said. Although Jenson will already know that's the situation and that he needs to get it sorted quickly. Saying it in public on the radio might not have been the best timing, of course, but I bet his engineer is as stressed about it as Jenson is!

Jenson admitted that he is totally lost in terms of setting up the car. If that's so, then his season is basically over; his and Lewis' setup requirements appear to be different so he can't even fall back on the old "copy your team mate's settings and make the best of it" method. Hamilton can do that, however, because he is better able to drive around a setup that isn't 100% to his liking. Button can't and has admitted as much in interviews over the years. He's also admitted that Hamilton is better at driving around a set up issue than he is.

Now, if he's lucky, he'll get to Valencia and the car will, for whatever reason, suit him and he'll put in competitive times. That will bolster his confidence which will improve his mindset and help him to sort out his problems.

An awful lot of a racing car's performance is in the driver's head.

[myurr]

Have to agree. The "either of us" could also be his engineer talking about himself and not the team. People are definitely reading too much into it.

[PlatinumZealot]

If I were his engineer.

I would say: Jenson. COPY Hamilton's setup AND DRIVE IT!

He will learn.

[JimClarkFan]

The way they said it strongly implies the fragility of the bonds that tie them together. If I were Button I think I would be quite offended. He shouldn't be treated like a petulant child.

he has also criticized Mclarens ability to think on their feet in the past and I completely agree.

I read something about this somewhere too. It might have been on the McLaren Wikipedia page years ago. The writer (presumably this was reputably sourced) was contrasting McLaren and Ferrari culturally, and he said that McLaren was an extremely data-driven team, while Ferrari relied more on gut feel. One of the ways this manifested itself is that in critical race situations where important decisions need to be made, Ferrari would decisively make the decision while McLaren would go into paralysis by analysis. As long as Ferrari had the right people in charge it worked beautifully.

This is just one reason I've found myself drifting over to the red side in the last few years. I supported McLaren but it slowly dawned on me that they lack killer instinct. The team orders saga from Hockenheim 2010 was more of the same. Whitmash was acting all holier-than-thou about driver equality. Ferrari went for the jugular. One of them is the most successful team in history while the other has collected second-place finishes like it's going out of style the last 15 years.

yep , just had typical example in canada ; ferrari make the gut feel decision , and McL made the data driven decision

hang on , didn't McL come home with the win ?

Knew someone would try and be smart by forgetting recent history.

Button in Monaco last year when they took him into the pits and gave the win to Red Bull. Lewis' car under fueled last year in Silverston, Jenson's wheel falling of after a pit stop in the same race, constantly slow/bad pit stops this year, more miscalculations of fuel loads, and others...

Contrast that to Ferrari, or Red Bull, when was the last time they genuinely made a complete mess of things.

The strategy this weekend that Ferrari choose was the wrong one in HINDSIGHT because their tyres went of badly at the end of the race but they made that decision for the right reasons at that time, i.e. it seemed that 2nd was the worst they could do until the last few laps when Alonso's tyre went completely..

Bottom line is Ferrari and Red Bull rarely make basic blunders, but Mclaren have something new every week.

If I were his engineer.

I would say: Jenson. COPY Hamilton's setup AND DRIVE IT!

He will learn.

I would too.

[nacho]

Think if it was Heikki producing these performances.