Le Mans 24h Race - 2012

Please discuss here all your remarks and pose your questions about all racing series, except Formula One. Both technical and other questions about GP2, Touring cars, IRL, LMS, ...
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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Joined: 29 Jan 2010, 11:51
Location: SU 419113

Re: Le Mans 24h Race - 2012

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Agreed lightspeedracer.

There was almost nothing in it between the Audi and Toyota machine. Here's a video showing the Toyota having the measure of the Audi if anything.(unsure of which phase either was in...)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfvkKRmd2X8[/youtube]

Kudos to Toyota indeed, especially for a first attempt in years. Makes you wonder, Toyota struggled in F1 went to Le mans and was the measure of the Audi. Audi have designs of entering F1 allegedly, they will find it a very different kettle of fish from Le mans.
More could have been done.
David Purley

Lycoming
Lycoming
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Joined: 25 Aug 2011, 22:58

Re: Le Mans 24h Race - 2012

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Image

or rather, some very rough calculations.

lets assume that when the car is sliding perpendicularly, the sharkfin has a Cd of 1.3 (a number I got from wikipedia for a simple flat plate perpendicular to airflow) and has an area of .827 m^2 (2325 * 355.6 mm, which i roughly got from the spotting guide and the total length of the car) and the center of pressure is halfway up the fin and dead center. we'll take the CoG height to be 6 inches above the ground, with the fin center of pressure 880 mm above the ground. Finally, lets assume that the car lifted off at about 90 km/h.

drag force = .5 * v^2 * air density * Cd * A

with SI units, Fd = .5 * 25^2 * 1.225 * 1.3 * .827

which in our case works out to 411.6 N.
Lets assume half the weight is on each side of the car, and assume Fg on that part to be 9.8 * 450 = 4410 N. We'll neglect downforce as the car was travelling sideways. The question then is can the fin generate enough moment to overcome the gravitational loading

Image

the length of the overturning moment arm is .677 m (880mm - 6 inches) to the overturning moment .728 * 411.6 = 300 Nm

if we assume the track to be 2 meters minus half the tyre width (14 inches), the countering moment from gravity works out to be 3626 Nm.

Yes, its very rough, but its an order of magnitude difference. While it may have contributed, the sharkfin does not appear to have been enough to cause the flip over. I tried to use overoptimistic estimates, erring towards things that would help the sharkfin lift the car off the ground. I have neglected the lift effect from the floor. Thats fine; I'm only trying to determine of the shark fin was the culprit. That does not appear to be the case.

Forgive my odd mix of metric and imperial units. Thats what happens when you live in a country that uses SI but sells 60% of your exports to americans.

bhall
bhall
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Joined: 28 Feb 2006, 21:26

Re: Le Mans 24h Race - 2012

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The catalyst for the car going airborne was never really in doubt. That result was inevitable after the car lost it's it left-rear wheel and the right side slid over the curb immediately afterward. That's how enough pressure got underneath the car to lift it off the ground.

My question has always concerned the fin playing a supporting role in the accident, so to speak, not a starring role.

Either way, thank you for bringing science to the question. (I can only talk about it, because I'm pretty sure I've forgotten how to do long division.)

timbo
timbo
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Joined: 22 Oct 2007, 10:14

Re: Le Mans 24h Race - 2012

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I think LMPs have to be policed for a total area seen from above. This is really a big, wide, long car, which weight what? Less then a ton? No matter how much you add fins, fender openings etc, it's still would have a BIG area and LOW mass. PERFECT for a plane, BAD for a car.

shelly
shelly
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Joined: 05 May 2009, 12:18

Re: Le Mans 24h Race - 2012

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@lycoming: I think there are some mistakes in your calculation (how can weight have a moment arm to cg?) but they somehow compensate and I agree on your estimate of the restoring moment due to weight.

I agree on all the estimates except for speed: I think you underestimate speed with 90kph. I think 200kph is a closer estimate, and that would increase the aero moment of the fin by a factor 6 (big effect on filp!)

maybe the speed could be estimated in the movie taking the white marks on the track as a reference, in order to get a reasonable ballpark

I agree that aero load form the floor plays a major role
twitter: @armchair_aero