The strange case of Schumacher

[clarkiesyeah]

Monaco pole position. U mad bro?

Firstly, as i said, this wasn't my personal opinion. Secondly, Pole postition is a relection of one lap pace, which my post never questioned. The post said, he couldn't "race" on these tyres, nothing about qualifying. Thirdly, am I mad bro? Yes, bro, very much so, bro

[marcush.]

Button won a race and is nowhere now .
The season is unpredictable still -Maldonato winning one week and relegated to being nowhere next time..The championship is devalued and marred already in my view .A schumacher win would be nice but it does not prove anything.
According to Hembrey the tyre itself is not that different to last years so it´s the choices taken by the team in car design that lead to the current situation ?
anyways Schumacher can race .The car suits him .Nothing to hide.Schumacher would never ever hide anything or mask anything..for what reason? If he realised he was unable to be competitive he ´d quit on the spot.

[thearmofbarlow]

Button won a race and is nowhere now .
The season is unpredictable still -Maldonato winning one week and relegated to being nowhere next time..The championship is devalued and marred already in my view .A schumacher win would be nice but it does not prove anything.
According to Hembrey the tyre itself is not that different to last years so it´s the choices taken by the team in car design that lead to the current situation ?
anyways Schumacher can race .The car suits him .Nothing to hide.Schumacher would never ever hide anything or mask anything..for what reason? If he realised he was unable to be competitive he ´d quit on the spot.

Quoted for accuracy. If Schumacher didn't feel he could win, he would not be here. It's that simple.

Not sure why the championship is "devalued" because it's actually COMPETITIVE, but whatever. Half credit.

[raymondu999]

I think, reading marcush's comment, what he meants by devaluing it is that, nowadays, winning a grand prix just means "you're at least as good as Maldonado" and "no team/driver combo is good enough to consistently beat even the likes of Maldonado."

[bhall]

I think marcush has devalued the Championship for the same reason I have: results are now contingent upon many, many things that are out of the teams' range of control. That's not necessarily a "right or wrong" assessment, mind you; it's just an individual interpretation out of many others that are just as valid.

The winner will still be the one who gets "it" right more than the competition. The point of contention here is just what should or shouldn't be "it."

Nevertheless, this new form of F1 goes against a driver like Schumacher, who has proven the ability to do very, very well everything that's within his control. As more things are given up to forces outside of his control, that advantage wanes.

[thearmofbarlow]

I think, reading marcush's comment, what he meants by devaluing it is that, nowadays, winning a grand prix just means "you're at least as good as Maldonado" and "no team/driver combo is good enough to consistently beat even the likes of Maldonado."

Was 2008 "devalued" because a lineal MINARDI won a GP with some 21 year old twat at the helm?

Loss of control is a good thing. It means the best teams are those best equipped to adapt to the circumstances around them. Just look at the top of the driver standings for proof of that. While it's tight right now it will eventually become a three-horse race amongst the drivers most capable of making purses out of pig ears.

[raymondu999]

I think, reading marcush's comment, what he meants by devaluing it is that, nowadays, winning a grand prix just means "you're at least as good as Maldonado" and "no team/driver combo is good enough to consistently beat even the likes of Maldonado."

Was 2008 "devalued" because a lineal MINARDI won a GP with some 21 year old twat at the helm?

Going by my personal standards, no. Because there were a group who were consistently a cut above the rest. But I think what marcush means (and what I personally mean) is that it seems like there are 12 drivers who are just "average" duking it out. I (personal preference) prefer to see 3 or 4 drivers who really rise above the field, because then it shows that 3/4 car-driver packages really are much better than the others

[marcush.]

devalued -It´s not really the ingenious driver or engineer who gets everything right that weekend ...It´s more a lucky draw
for the team and driver combo...

It´s like a big drum of variables not understood by the teams or drivers and apart from Caterham ,HRT and Marussia it could be anyones weekend ..that´s not worth a lot considering you could get it terribly wrong as well and don´t know why .
See button. see Maldonato ,see Raikkonen ,Massa .

All teams all drivers were affected already by the strange behaviour of these tyres under different conditions for different drivers it is a mystery and remains as such.
Just hear what they have on offer for explanations ...just rediculous...the car was off in minor areas (for Button) but it had a huge impact ...So they have no means of understanding how to value some aspects of the setup of the car when something minor can decide between dominating a race and getting lapped..

[raymondu999]

devalued -It´s not really the ingenious driver or engineer who gets everything right that weekend ...It´s more a lucky draw
for the team and driver combo...

Interesting you put it that way marcush.

Let's take a hypothetical situation. Let's say it turns out that actually Red Bull, McLaren, Ferrari, Lotus, Sauber, Mercedes are actually cars with equal performance levels, and actually everyone had been getting the same of the tyres; so really the pace differences weekend by weekend have been the result of engineers/drivers simply finding a better setup that is worth several tenths. Would it still devalue the championship for you?

Purely hypothetical.

[GrizzleBoy]

Welp, Schumis just had his car taken into the garage after complaining about engine drive issues......

[f1316]

Just thought I'd throw this in here - seems as good a place as any. I have to say I was a bit annoyed reading Jaime Alguersuari's column on the BBC's website, where he, like some others, seemed to apportion much of Schumacher's success in his first career to having "different tyres" and "bespoke engines". Well, as we all know, he didn't always have different tyres and everyone had a bespoke engine (sometimes, as was the case with Williams' BMW engine, a more powerful one), so I find the comment - and the column in general - a bit damning with faint praise.

Anyway, my real point was to point people to the last time MSC was on the podium, in China 2006, as an example of how, even at the end of his first career, Schumacher was able to overcome a tyre disadvantage. If any one has this video, I suggest you watch it, as I think his last victory was among his finest ever. I know he benefitted from Alonso's problems to get the win, but his qualifying lap alone, on a vastly inferior Bridgestone, is enough to show the flaws in comments like Alguersuari's.

Rather than try to diminish his first career, I'm surprised people aren't more impressed that he is even close to running at the pace of people nearly 20 years younger than him.

[mzivtins]

Just thought I'd throw this in here - seems as good a place as any. I have to say I was a bit annoyed reading Jaime Alguersuari's column on the BBC's website, where he, like some others, seemed to apportion much of Schumacher's success in his first career to having "different tyres" and "bespoke engines". Well, as we all know, he didn't always have different tyres and everyone had a bespoke engine (sometimes, as was the case with Williams' BMW engine, a more powerful one), so I find the comment - and the column in general - a bit damning with faint praise.

Anyway, my real point was to point people to the last time MSC was on the podium, in China 2006, as an example of how, even at the end of his first career, Schumacher was able to overcome a tyre disadvantage. If any one has this video, I suggest you watch it, as I think his last victory was among his finest ever. I know he benefitted from Alonso's problems to get the win, but his qualifying lap alone, on a vastly inferior Bridgestone, is enough to show the flaws in comments like Alguersuari's.

Rather than try to diminish his first career, I'm surprised people aren't more impressed that he is even close to running at the pace of people nearly 20 years younger than him.

I agree completely.

If Schuey won through technical advantage alone, then so did mansell, hill, button, vettel etc etc. We are lucky to see one of the greatest racing drivers that will ever be, still racing. He is a legend, like it or not nothing comes close to him, he is the only man on a par with senna.

No one changed the sport like senna did in terms of safety, and no one changed the sport like Schuey did in terms of driver fitness and pushing beyond the limit. That guy was ripped, whilst most of the other drivers had saggy tits.

I love what he did for the sport, made people realise these guys are athletes! and he is bloody good! although its a shame he isn't as aggressive as he once was.

Of course this is my own opinion.

I don't understand the drivers of today... hamilton loves senna, and yet doesn't seem to realise that he is racing alongside someone who really was able to challenge senna, that to me would be extremely rewarding. This guys lived through all the issues, all the death... if i was an f1 driver, i would be desperate to be his team-mate just so i can follow him around and ask him endless things about the history of f1, no one knows it better than him.

[Raptor22]

and no one has won more world championships under massively different rules.
94-95 3.5L V10 engines wide track, slick tyres,

2000-2005
narrow track, low rear wing of reduced dimension, grooved tyres.

He's won against a superior tyre, against superior cars.

Schumi has always shown how to get the best out of the car when a driver could make the difference.

I don't want to sound nostalgic but todays crop of drivers are pampered mommies boys with nice haircuts and models for girlfriends.

The BBC and associated english press villified Schumacher for Adelaide 94 even though turning into a corner has always been part of F1.
Schumacherhas shown great consistency throughout his career, as a person and a driver. He makes eye contact so you know he believes what he is saying.
I watched another driver show the typical signs of lying through your teeth during an interview recently. that driver also in the past accused Schumacher of doing something but he was lying then too. the nervous stroking of eyebrows, scrathchin the nose, not maintain ing eye contact.
F1 was poorer after Schumacher retired and it will poorer still when he retires again.
I root for hammy and Vettel but those guys still haven't got that extra something that makes them special. As good as I recogniose Alonso is, he will never be anywhere near the like of Schumacher, Senna, Prost, and Mansell in terms of raw talent or personality. He's too much of a whiner and manipulator.Just my opion.

[f1316]

I don't understand the drivers of today... hamilton loves senna, and yet doesn't seem to realise that he is racing alongside someone who really was able to challenge senna, that to me would be extremely rewarding. This guys lived through all the issues, all the death... if i was an f1 driver, i would be desperate to be his team-mate just so i can follow him around and ask him endless things about the history of f1, no one knows it better than him.

I definitely think that some of the younger drivers feel they already know it all and have little or nothing to learn from someone like Schumacher - all they need is the right car and they'll show them all (in their minds). To some extent you want that kind of confidence from a driver - I'm sure Schumacher himself had it - but it's a fine line to tread and some of them seem to tread the wrong side before even proving themselves.

I certainly get that impression when I listen to Alguersuari's commentary, and that despite the fact that his entire frame of reference comes from his time at Torro Rosso! I really don't feel he's qualified to talk as he does, not to mention how he always likes to get in the fact that he wants to get back into F1 soon...(yes, we get it, I'm sure you do!)

This new obsession some people have with Schumey's tyres in his heyday is, I think, extremely unfair, given that it seems to be on reflection having seen him drive as a 40+ year old. Anyone expecting him to completely smoke the young guns (like he used to in, as has been pointed out, a variety of conditions) had, I would say, slightly unrealistic expectations.

[zyphro]

F1 was poorer after Schumacher retired and it will poorer still when he retires again.

I agree, Schumacher brings that extra something. I hope he stays for a few more years yet, he's improving every year by the looks of things!

I can't imagine F1 being the same without him (again).