Should the number of mechanics for pit stops be limited?

[bhall]

I seriously do not understand how F1 has so many fans when so many people want to strip the F1 from F1.

[basrawi]

Unfortunately I think at the rate accidents are occuring, rules will end up being put in place when a mechanic gets crippled. I would much rather see something changed before that happens.

I witnessed the Sauber pitstop first hand, it wasn't pleasant.

What makes you think fewer mechanics makes an accident less likely? Sure, you reduce the number of injured in an accident, but you don't make them less likely, which is really where the target would be to improve safety.

Exactly what i was thinking about. reducing the number of mechanics will only reduce the number of injuries and not the likelihood of it happening.

It like saying: my car overheats, so to fix it i will drive for short distances.

A viable solution will be something like a minimum distance the mechanics needs to keep until the car is stationary. This will give the driver more time and space to correct/control any mistake from his side.

Lets not forget this is F1, its a sport that is built on trust. Drivers trust the mechanics to deliver a safe cars. Mechanics trust the driver to stop at exactly the right time. Teams trust tyre suppliers to supply safe tyres, and so on.

To me this incident is no different than releasing the driver with a loose nut, or installing a part that lacks the structure integrity (Kimi's rear wing couple of years back with Mclaren). People get emotional because they see the mechanics getting hit with no perceived protection, but again the same could be said about the driver when the mechanics do a mistake (and they're been doing a lot lately). People forgot how dangerous F1 is because no one get seriously hurt from an F1 crash these days. If Kimi's rear wing failure was in the 80's, he would've been killed!

F1 can never be 100% safe. Asking for a change in pit stop rules is a knee jerk reaction and it will only harm the sport by adding more senseless restrictions.

[Cam]

Well bhall2gk, I'm going to have to go against you on this one. You know my stance of 'purist' and one would expect me to leave the pit stops alone, however, I want F1 to live, so costs savings are paramount. There's no need to have that many people. Each one is paid a wage, transport, accommodation, flights etc, it's a lot of money x 20 races x X years = money which could be saved. By nipping back on all these little areas, great saving can be applied.

I personally don't see 'tech' playing a huge part in people doing the F1 pit stops. Now if you had internal jacks, guns without hoses, etc that would be more along F1 standards. Also, increasing the pit time probably isn't a bad thing. Seeing the pressure on just 2 people working on the car would be nail biting. While I agree seeing 4 tyres changed in under 3 seconds is impressive, I'd rather see the cost savings and focus on better tech to do the same job, that way the purist in me is happy and the accountant in me is happy too and I think the show would actually improve with the increased drama and tension created by reducing the people involved.

[Cam]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XD7em_V3c4[/youtube]
It is nice to see other categories and see what they do. V8 Supercars do a nice job. One guy only for each wheel, one guy fuels, one guy runs the jack (I don't think you need a guy a guy at the front, tech could replace him). You'll see that they double up on their roles to make adjustments, check the car etc. It does seem more efficient and I'm sure they feel the pressure to perform multi-roles.

[mx_tifoso]

I seriously do not understand how F1 has so many fans when so many people want to strip the F1 from F1.

I've been thinking the same.

[bhall]

The people you see working on the car during pit stops aren't just there to work on the car during pit stops; they're the mechanics who work on the car all weekend. Eliminating their positions to save money is just as nonsensical as eliminating refueling to save the cost of transporting fuel rigs. It's like trying to cut down a tree with a spoon.

Really, Cam, I have no idea what it is you want from F1, because you're all over the place when it comes to what should and shouldn't be. How does a self-styled F1 purist look to V8 Supercars for inspiration? (EDIT: I do not mean that as an attack in spite of how it may seem. I concede that my tone often seems aggressive, when it's really not.)

If teams stop spending money on mechanics at races - an area that's already been sharply curtailed in recent years - do you think those teams are going to pocket that money or spend it elsewhere? And what do you do with the other 40 people in the bowels of the garage who monitor telemetry and strategy?

It makes my brain spin to see so many so-called F1 fans continually demand the extraction of F1 from F1. If fans don't like processional races, they probably shouldn't watch F1. If fans don't like the aerodynamic influence on cars, they probably shouldn't watch F1. If fans don't like a veritable platoon of mechanics servicing a car as quickly as possible during pit stops, they probably shouldn't watch F1.

If fans want to see anything other than transparent regulations to make the competition more fair, they probably shouldn't watch F1, because the whole point of F1 is to make the game as unfair as possible for the other teams.

[pyrosian]

It is nice to see other categories and see what they do. V8 Supercars do a nice job. One guy only for each wheel, one guy fuels, one guy runs the jack (I don't think you need a guy a guy at the front, tech could replace him). You'll see that they double up on their roles to make adjustments, check the car etc. It does seem more efficient and I'm sure they feel the pressure to perform multi-roles.

I believe that the V8 Supercar Series have just recently increased the amount of people you are allowed on a pit stop! There was/is alot of injuries to the tyre mechanics due to the fact they have to throw the tyres around while crouched ending in back injuries.

[Cam]

I understand your confusion bhall2gk. I'm trying to find middle ground. My hard stance for F1 remaining supreme was cut down from all angles in other threads, so I'm trying to keep an open mind and offer up positive solutions, even if I don't fully agree with them.

In a perfect world, the current pit stopping solution is great, I love it. Awesome to see a perfect dance of coordination of people and tools to despatch a car in a few seconds, however, as has been thrown in my face continually, the vast majority of people don't think that these kind of F1 traits should remain (and you know all the traits I'm talking about from the other threads), so how is pit stops any different.

Rather than throw my hands up in the air and walk away, I'm trying to see both sides and offer up possible remedies that may have some merit. It does not mean that my fundamental wish and desire for F1 has changed and I'm a bit surprised you, of all people, would think that.

If reducing the number of people in pit stops helps F1 stay afloat, then I'm okay with that - for me it's more about the driver, car and development anyway. Sometimes we all have to 'take one for the team'.

[bhall]

[...]

In a perfect world, the current pit stopping solution is great, I love it. Awesome to see a perfect dance of coordination of people and tools to despatch a car in a few seconds, however, as has been thrown in my face continually, the vast majority of people don't think that these kind of F1 traits should remain (and you know all the traits I'm talking about from the other threads), so how is pit stops any different.

[...]

In these cases, you remind those people of the plethora of other racing series around the world that they might find more to their liking.

I don't like American football. But, I might if some parts of it were different. Is it fair for me to demand those changes in spite of everyone who does like American football just the way it is?

[SeijaKessen]

Everyone wants to remake F1 into something IT NEVER WAS AND NEVER SHOULD BE.

It's like all the idiots who have the gall to post about how great the Pirelli Tire Lottery of 2012 is, and how great DRS is.

Honestly?

I get being a F1 fan for some is more about being able to claim they are a F1 fan than actually having any concept of how F1 existed for decades.

Limiting the pit stop mechanics is hysterical.

I find incredibly sad how people here of all places, seem to miss the entire essence of F1.

[SeijaKessen]

I understand your confusion bhall2gk. I'm trying to find middle ground. My hard stance for F1 remaining supreme was cut down from all angles in other threads, so I'm trying to keep an open mind and offer up positive solutions, even if I don't fully agree with them.

In a perfect world, the current pit stopping solution is great, I love it. Awesome to see a perfect dance of coordination of people and tools to despatch a car in a few seconds, however, as has been thrown in my face continually, the vast majority of people don't think that these kind of F1 traits should remain (and you know all the traits I'm talking about from the other threads), so how is pit stops any different.

Rather than throw my hands up in the air and walk away, I'm trying to see both sides and offer up possible remedies that may have some merit. It does not mean that my fundamental wish and desire for F1 has changed and I'm a bit surprised you, of all people, would think that.

If reducing the number of people in pit stops helps F1 stay afloat, then I'm okay with that - for me it's more about the driver, car and development anyway. Sometimes we all have to 'take one for the team'.

There's a certain FUD that comes out of FOM, F1, and the FIA regarding costs involved in F1.

It's great because most people buy into it, while not really putting two and two together as FOM rapes every circuit into the ground for the privilege of hosting a race...that doesn't even get into the TV costs.

The profits are at an all time high, and the teams do get part of that. Yet we're still hearing how finances are shaky in spite of engine specs that have been locked since 2008, and just about everything else has been so restricted that there isn't a whole lot to do. Yet we're supposed to believe a conniving billionaire who has schemed to defraud the fans for a few decades that there are financial issues? lol

[snoop1050]

meh just bring back refueling and the mechanics are likely to make less mistakes because a pitstop becomes alot longer and changing the tyres in 2 seconds nolonger becomes an issue

[Cam]

[...]

In a perfect world, the current pit stopping solution is great, I love it. Awesome to see a perfect dance of coordination of people and tools to despatch a car in a few seconds, however, as has been thrown in my face continually, the vast majority of people don't think that these kind of F1 traits should remain (and you know all the traits I'm talking about from the other threads), so how is pit stops any different.

[...]

In these cases, you remind those people of the plethora of other racing series around the world that they might find more to their liking.

I don't like American football. But, I might if some parts of it were different. Is it fair for me to demand those changes in spite of everyone who does like American football just the way it is?

bhall2gk, this is a thread discussing 'should' the number of mechanics be limited. You simply can't poo poo every negative answer that gets added. We all know you're a F1 'purist', more so than probably anyone else here, but we still should be able to suggest solutions or concepts without being harassed and vilified simply because it does not meet your reasoning of F1.

The suggestions here are valid and should be discussed as such. My offering considers the cost factors. I would consider that valid, even if changes the current why F1 is shown. It doesn't mean it has to happen. It's just an idea.

Try to keep an open mind mate, I'm trying too.

[bhall]

The very nature of conversation means there will inevitably be dissent, especially when the conversation is largely speculative. As such, one should expect to see a list of reasons for why something "should not" be true when they submit a list of reasons for why something "should" be true.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odhAbHgfk_c[/youtube]

Mistakes happen. The best response to them is usually vigilance rather than change.

[wrcsti]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQQbEfr9irE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHnrtNAW ... ure=relmfu

While F1 shouldnt be this it is interesting to see how different each sport makes its strides. Ive tried tire changes in a demo for nascar and its very incredible that these men have gotten to a level of 12-13 seconds for all that work. Notice, its 5 lugs and not single large lugs. The actual nuts are are made of steel and are destroyed after one use, most teams give them away as souvenirs.