Should the number of mechanics for pit stops be limited?

[beelsebob]

Well bhall2gk, I'm going to have to go against you on this one. You know my stance of 'purist' and one would expect me to leave the pit stops alone, however, I want F1 to live, so costs savings are paramount. There's no need to have that many people. Each one is paid a wage, transport, accommodation, flights etc, it's a lot of money x 20 races x X years = money which could be saved. By nipping back on all these little areas, great saving can be applied.

You think those mechanics do nothing but pit stops and could be sacked if the pit stops were smaller?

You've got to be kidding me!

[mzivtins]

I find the notion that what was said in the original post... removing people so only one out of 4 guys would be hurt would make the pits SAFER is just stupid.

Even if there was one single soul stood in the pit lane, it would still not be safer.

Things that would make the pit lane safer...

30kph speed limit.
Widening of the pit lanes.
Pill-boxes for each garage (f1 cars are designed to withstand crashes, humans arent, so sod the cars! protect people)

Anyway, i'd hate all of that... this is f1, and given the chance i would throw myself at that all day and love it, if only we had the opportunity... although i would wear full knox body armour

Oh and you could make pit stops safer by making them longer? right? wrong... re-fuelling takes longer... fire is baaaaaad

[mzivtins]

Also (apologies for the double post) the video example of 'Silverstone GP 2012 GP3 - Trident Racing, Giovanni Venturini Pitstop [1080p][HD]' is not like for like, that would be the same as comparing me changing my bed sheets to changing a wheel on a formula one car.

Look at the crouched position of the front two tyre guys.

I do a lot of gym work, and if you asked me to do that by myself from that position with a heavier f1 wheel i would tell you where to go, you would damage your back for a lifetime.

The pace and requirements dictate numbers, safety dictates speed limits.

[Hail22]

Leave it as it is...sigh...just because Kobobasheverything hit his crew and schumacher before him does not mean we need to reduce pit crews...As bob and others have stated...They're not just for pit stops...some of them work on the hydraulics, electronics, fuel injection systems etc...the pit stops is merely another role in their job.


Whats next? Formula 1 cars should be able to run on pure methane gas?...what is the world coming to...

[C29]

Really, pit stops are horribly unsafe for the pit crews? How often do they get seriously injured? How often do we see an incident like Kobayashi's (and they weren't even all that seriously injured)? Maybe once a year?

You know, anything and everything in F1 (all motorsports...in fact life itself) is dangerous to a certain extent. Want to eleminate all dager in F1? Ban F1! It's one thing to reduce the impact of serious crashes but part of what makes racing exciting is a certain element of danger.

Would an F1 pit stop be as impressive if the crew was forced to wait 5 seconds after the car comes to a halt (from a 20km/h pit lane speed limit) before jumping over a hard concrete barrier (sorry, too dangerous, the crew could trip over the barrier, so better make it a fireproof door with a nice large and safe bright red handle, and a sign telling the user to use both arms when opening so as not to risk causing any potential bodily harm), and the car wasn't allowed to leave for at least 30 seconds after the crew started, to make sure everything was taken care of at a good and safe pace.

Or just make pit crews wear five layers of bubble wrap.

You want safety, then stay at home on your couch. Oh but wait, there's always risks of carbon monoxide and maybe even asbestos in there, and one wouldn't want to be unhealthy due to inactivity...

[beelsebob]

30kph speed limit.
Widening of the pit lanes.
Pill-boxes for each garage (f1 cars are designed to withstand crashes, humans arent, so sod the cars! protect people)

Actually, watching the nascar stops above made me realise you could do one very simple thing to make them safer... Mechanics must not leave the garage until the car is stopped. The car may not start until the mechanics (and all tyres) are in the garage.

[Cam]

Well bhall2gk, I'm going to have to go against you on this one. You know my stance of 'purist' and one would expect me to leave the pit stops alone, however, I want F1 to live, so costs savings are paramount. There's no need to have that many people. Each one is paid a wage, transport, accommodation, flights etc, it's a lot of money x 20 races x X years = money which could be saved. By nipping back on all these little areas, great saving can be applied.

You think those mechanics do nothing but pit stops and could be sacked if the pit stops were smaller?

You've got to be kidding me!

Give me some credit. That's not what I want at all. This thread is about 'should' the number of mechanics for pit stops be reduced. Most have taken that as being from a safety point of view. There is always more than one viewpoint to every topic. I for one, as has been demonstrated in my many many posts, have no problem with risk in F1. For F1, I certainly do not see a couple of injuries as a reason to stop something. In fact, that they drive slower and nurse the cars is appalling too me and I am one the biggest vocal haters of this season and the trend that F1 is taking.

I'm not kidding about discussing whether hundreds and hundreds of people are needed to run a race team. Those business costs and the associated logistics must account for a large percent of any budget. This, at a time, when everyone is screaming to reduce costs. Ask any business what their highest cost is and the large percentage will say 'wages' - which is why people get sacked as the first point for savings.

If they reduced the number of pit crew, I don't think it would effect the race results that much, anymore than it does now. I hope they don't change, but their are rational and viable reasons to consider, outside of safety.

[Cam]

30kph speed limit.
Widening of the pit lanes.
Pill-boxes for each garage (f1 cars are designed to withstand crashes, humans arent, so sod the cars! protect people)

Actually, watching the nascar stops above made me realise you could do one very simple thing to make them safer... Mechanics must not leave the garage until the car is stopped. The car may not start until the mechanics (and all tyres) are in the garage.

Yep and the technology exists right now. You have accelerometers in the cars now (I think) so a simple trigger that indicates the car has fully stopped would be an easy implementation. That would certainly reduce the risk and in any OH&S system, it's the reduction of risk which is key.

[Caito]

If you would like to reduce risk it would be as easy as telling the mechanics to be inside the pits till the car reaches a full stop. The car can't get out till the mechanics are back in the pits, and there we go.

Boring if you tell me. I like risk, it's part of the "game". Of course I don't like seeing a guy getting hurt but knowing that the driver can't miss by 10 inches or he screw it up is great.
I don't think the amount of mechanics getting hurt justifies a change. Nor the gravity of their injuries, one could have a similar injury just by riding a bike (ask webber if not).

About costs, all this left rear on McLaren, on one of the articles it was clearly stated that the guys were NOT getting extra money for being pit stop mechanics. So additional cost equals zero basically.. so arguing it as a cost reduction is plain wrong.

[Cam]

If you would like to reduce risk it would be as easy as telling the mechanics to be inside the pits till the car reaches a full stop. The car can't get out till the mechanics are back in the pits, and there we go.

Boring if you tell me. I like risk, it's part of the "game". Of course I don't like seeing a guy getting hurt but knowing that the driver can't miss by 10 inches or he screw it up is great.
I don't think the amount of mechanics getting hurt justifies a change. Nor the gravity of their injuries, one could have a similar injury just by riding a bike (ask webber if not).

About costs, all this left rear on McLaren, on one of the articles it was clearly stated that the guys were NOT getting extra money for being pit stop mechanics. So additional cost equals zero basically.. so arguing it as a cost reduction is plain wrong.

I have no doubt that mechanics, along with other staff double on duties and do extra work for no extra pay. Most do, and probably you do as well, as well as most employees all around the world. That doesn't factor when considering staff cuts.

Red Bull Racing has 592 staff*, that's a lot of people. Seeing as they "recruited the best and most professional people for all key positions*" one can only assume they're all getting paid well. Do the sums = awesome pay x 592 x 12 teams, give or take. Don't get me wrong, I hope it stays that way and they all deserve every cent they get and I realise that not all 592 are at the track and each team is different. Reducing the pit crew will reduce costs, I would have thought.

It's such a small area anyway. Leave it as it is - it's fine by me.

(*source: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/moto ... 62609.html)

[Caito]

If you would like to reduce risk it would be as easy as telling the mechanics to be inside the pits till the car reaches a full stop. The car can't get out till the mechanics are back in the pits, and there we go.

Boring if you tell me. I like risk, it's part of the "game". Of course I don't like seeing a guy getting hurt but knowing that the driver can't miss by 10 inches or he screw it up is great.
I don't think the amount of mechanics getting hurt justifies a change. Nor the gravity of their injuries, one could have a similar injury just by riding a bike (ask webber if not).

About costs, all this left rear on McLaren, on one of the articles it was clearly stated that the guys were NOT getting extra money for being pit stop mechanics. So additional cost equals zero basically.. so arguing it as a cost reduction is plain wrong.

I have no doubt that mechanics, along with other staff double on duties and do extra work for no extra pay. Most do, and probably you do as well, as well as most employees all around the world. That doesn't factor when considering staff cuts.

Red Bull Racing has 592 staff*, that's a lot of people. Seeing as they "recruited the best and most professional people for all key positions*" one can only assume they're all getting paid well. Do the sums = awesome pay x 592 x 12 teams, give or take. Don't get me wrong, I hope it stays that way and they all deserve every cent they get and I realise that not all 592 are at the track and each team is different. Reducing the pit crew will reduce costs, I would have thought.

It's such a small area anyway. Leave it as it is - it's fine by me.

(*source: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/moto ... 62609.html)

I really doubt that they're getting the best salaries being that a lot of people would like that position. Offer and demand.

[bhall]

I blame the regulations for these types of conversations. I really do.

What else can those interested in the inner workings of a sport talk about when the inner working don't change all that much anymore?

[Cam]

So you're saying this conversation exists simply because we have a lack of things to discuss? tsk tsk tsk

It's a great question, that quite relevant, topical and one with many reasons to keep and/or change. I think the views of most people here have been great and it's interesting to see a cross section.

The idea to allow the pit crew out when the car has stopped, I think, has solved the big problems people have - risk. It was discussed here, with methods of implementation, because someone asked the question. Not sure you can asks more really

[bhall]

Despite my feelings on the subject, there's nothing wrong with asking the question. However, I think it's probably safe to say that we'd all rather be talking about an exciting new element of F1 design.

Remember the days when teams used to introduce multiple engines every year?

That's what I meant.

[Richard]

Reducing the pit crew will reduce costs, I would have thought.

A quick note to correct a misunderstanding - The pit crew are selected from the mechanics team. If you reduced the number of people involved in a pit stop you'd still have the same number of mechanics in the team, hence the same costs. All that would happen is that there would be a tidier garage or a more polished tool chests as a result of more idle hands during the actual race.

The only reason for reducing the numbers in a pit stop would be for safety, a less crowded pit lane would improve visibility. Fewer people in more space would reduce the severity of any accident.

I'm agnostic on the matter, although it wouldn't do any harm to get rid of the extra people holding the car steady, the teams should design better jacks instead! Have the same number of people on the wheels and jacks, but limit extras to 2 people. That'll be enough to adjust the front wing, wipe the drivers visor, swap nose cones etc. Oh you'd need a lollipop man too, that is so safety critical that it'd be stupid to multitask that person.

So I guess that means I'm sticking with the status quo.