Mercedes AMG F1 W03

[Owen.C93]

It's all right there.
[img]http://thumbnails63.imagebam.com/20369/ ... 76.jpg[img]
(Click to enlarge)

I think rear wing stuff is just a fluidic switch. Otherwise, I don't see how air can be inducted from a parallel stream then routed through end plates, a beam wing, and a maze of other duct work all the way to the front of the car and still have useful energy left over to do anything meaningful. Combined with an assumption that Mercedes is following the letter of the law regarding allowable uses for nose inlets, there's really only one conclusion to be made here.

(Of course, I also think the system is used in a manner that's exactly opposite to the widely-held current notion. I think the front wing requires vented flow to produce downforce and that opening DRS stops that air flow and stalls the front wing. But, that's another subject altogether.)

Those 2 tubes look awfully similar in diameter to the ones coming from the rear wing. Don't forget the rear wing plane is pretty high pressure even with DRS open so I don't think the flow is that bad, especially when you compare it to a thin duct ontop of nose.

I originally thought the rear wing DRS acted as the fluidic switch but considering the size of the tubing and how they go into the nose combined with the relatively small outlets in the front wing then I think they just skipped that step and used that flow directly.

[amc]

I think rear wing stuff is just a fluidic switch. Otherwise, I don't see how air can be inducted from a parallel stream then routed through end plates, a beam wing, and a maze of other duct work all the way to the front of the car and still have useful energy left over to do anything meaningful. Combined with an assumption that Mercedes is following the letter of the law regarding allowable uses for nose inlets, there's really only one conclusion to be made here.

Did the car not run without that duct on the nose in Malaysia or somewhere? I didn't think it was permanent enough to be part of a system like this.

Regarding the energy, this has come up in the Lotus thread too. The flow through the duct is defined almost entirely by the pressure conditions at the inlet and outlet. There is high pressure at the rear wing ducts and low pressure under the front wing, so the air will be drawn through the duct. The shape/length of the duct has very little bearing on the flow, save for the effects of skin friction, but this is minimal.

This is part of the steady flow equation, which explains why water pressure doesn't decrease in pipes that go over hills as long as they start and finish at the same height, and also why when you have windows open on a windy day the doors will slam.

Let's say when the DRS is open the airspeed at the rear wing entrance is about 50m/s, which is about 20m/s less than freestream on a straight. Under the front wing might be more like 100m/s (effectively). The pressure difference at the start and finish of the duct is about 4500 Pa. On a tube with diameter 50mm there is a force on the air through the tunnel of about 9N. That could shift quite a bit of air. I don't know if these are accurate airspeed figures, so the effect may be much greater.

[bhall]

Did the car not run without that duct on the nose in Malaysia or somewhere? I didn't think it was permanent enough to be part of a system like this.

The chassis scoop appeared in Malaysia, and Brawn confirmed the Daffy Duct was not in use at the previous race in Australia.

This is admittedly a different model. But the concept is the same. I don't see how there's enough pressure at the DRS "inlets" to move enough air to the front of the car, especially when you consider that the system is supposed to work when the flap is open and that pressure effectively vanishes. That's not to mention the pressure-bleeding slots that are a feature of every F1 rear-wing end plate.

On the other hand, that's a great way to relieve the pressure being drawn in from the chassis scoop that would otherwise be sent to the front wing. That's but one of the reasons why I think Mercedes' Daffy Duct vents air through the front wing by default. That vented air energizes the flow behind the wing and keeps it attached in much the same way that slots energize flow on wings with a high AoA. When DRS is activated, the scoop-inducted air is vented from the rear wing instead of sent to the front wing, which then stalls due to the separation of air flow that's no longer being energized. And stuff.

Then there's this (for whatever it's worth):

OK fellas, just back from the [Malaysian] GP...

Spoke with a FIA tech officer during scrutineering..

I spoke with him briefly about the secondary effect of the Fduct feeding it to the
front wing

he said thats simply not the case and the media (and speculation) was simply wrong and he couldn't say anything more

EDIT: Incidentally, this is also why I think Mercedes was able to remove the cascade wings. If you look at all cascade wings, they only cover the area immediately in front of the wheels. I think their purpose now is less to do with generating downforce than it is to keep air flow attached to the front wing in spite of the weird flows generated by rotating wheels. This is purely deductive reasoning, though, because I'm not smart enough to know all the particulars.

But, these things make sense given the likely difficulty of making such a system work effectively. As soon as the cascades vanished, Brawn proclaimed a shift in development strategy toward making best use of the tires. In other words, now they're going to catch up on all the --- they missed while making the Daffy Duct work.

[siskue2005]

Aren't those just the tubes coming down from the rear wing as part of the 'original' DDRS?

Then why should the tube come all the way to the tip of the nose? see the pic i posted
If it was just DDRS it should just turn down to the wing pylon and go to the wing to nlow it
but here there is an extra 2 tubes coming from the tip of nose!

Cause that pic has a car that is smashed at the front and the tubes go down via the pylons, pylons that stretch pretty far forward on the nose.

Pictures don't lie, even if it is mangled....you can clearly see a tube PARELLEL to the ground nearly to the tip of the nose....if it wanted to go to pylons it should have been already curved into the pylons...it has no business to be there if it was not for getting an air feed from tip of the nose
Right below where I wrote '2' you can see that's the place where the pylons go downwards
The tubes are going beyond that

See this pic just just how far back the pylons start
It's near the SYNTIUM sticker....and look at the above pic, the parellel to the ground tubes goes near to the merc 3d symbol



And why do you think merc has an extra air intake on top of the front chassis? Is It too hot? No coz they had two intakes even at cold China!

[Huntresa]

Its illegal and again its illegal and illegal and once again its illegal.

[raymondu999]

Its illegal and again its illegal and illegal and once again its illegal.

What is? The intake?

[bhall]

Theoretically, the nose inlet is illegal if it's not for driver cooling. I don't know that it's necessarily a firm rule, though, because I think a team could maneuver around it to a degree. However, they'd likely run into problems if no part of the inlet served to facilitate driver cooling, which would probably have to be the case if it was being used to intake air for a blown wing. It's just not big enough to do both.

3.7.8 Only a single section, which must be open, may be contained within any longitudinal vertical cross section taken parallel to the car centre line forward of a point 150mm ahead of the front wheel centre line, less than 250mm from the car centre line and more than 125mm above the reference plane.

Any cameras or camera housings approved by the FIA in addition to a single inlet aperture for the purpose of driver cooling (such aperture having a maximum projected surface area of 1500mm2 and being situated forward of the section referred to in Article 15.4.3) will be exempt from the above.

[Huntresa]

This is for the F-duct tested at suzuka,

"But one crucial picture in the AMuS gallery accompanying their article, was of the car with the nose removed, showing a black carbon fibre cover going over the front bulkhead. This would seal the nosecone, such that air entering the nose hole would not pass into the cockpit and instead pass down the wings support pylons. With this panel in place the nose hole cannot function as driver cooling and goes against the rules. Perhaps this set up using the nose hole was just at Suzuka for testing, as Teams are unable to do much full scale testing away from the circuit. It could be legally run in a Friday practice session, as teams are given some leeway to test parts which might otherwise be unacceptable to the scrutineers. As long as the parts aren’t run for qualifying, then apparently illegal parts can get limited Friday running.
So for 2012 the wing might gain its inlet from another position"

[Richard]

There's a thread for debating the blown wings and DDRS. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12199

[Cocles]

What specific changes should we hope to see on the car at Spa?

[siskue2005]

This is for the F-duct tested at suzuka,

"But one crucial picture in the AMuS gallery accompanying their article, was of the car with the nose removed, showing a black carbon fibre cover going over the front bulkhead. This would seal the nosecone, such that air entering the nose hole would not pass into the cockpit and instead pass down the wings support pylons. With this panel in place the nose hole cannot function as driver cooling and goes against the rules. Perhaps this set up using the nose hole was just at Suzuka for testing, as Teams are unable to do much full scale testing away from the circuit. It could be legally run in a Friday practice session, as teams are given some leeway to test parts which might otherwise be unacceptable to the scrutineers. As long as the parts aren’t run for qualifying, then apparently illegal parts can get limited Friday running.
So for 2012 the wing might gain its inlet from another position"

Source ?

[Huntresa]

This is for the F-duct tested at suzuka,

"But one crucial picture in the AMuS gallery accompanying their article, was of the car with the nose removed, showing a black carbon fibre cover going over the front bulkhead. This would seal the nosecone, such that air entering the nose hole would not pass into the cockpit and instead pass down the wings support pylons. With this panel in place the nose hole cannot function as driver cooling and goes against the rules. Perhaps this set up using the nose hole was just at Suzuka for testing, as Teams are unable to do much full scale testing away from the circuit. It could be legally run in a Friday practice session, as teams are given some leeway to test parts which might otherwise be unacceptable to the scrutineers. As long as the parts aren’t run for qualifying, then apparently illegal parts can get limited Friday running.
So for 2012 the wing might gain its inlet from another position"

Source ?

Its from scarbs blog post, the one you took an img from earlier of the F-duct tested at Suzuka.

[siskue2005]

So even if it is in grey area of the rules, just look at the pictures I posted...it clearly shows tubing to the tip of nose
There must be something there ....maybe someone like Scarbs could answer my question

[Huntresa]

I still dont see it but yeah ask scarbs and link him the pic.

[Dragonfly]

What specific changes should we hope to see on the car at Spa?

Car washed and paint renewed