Do you want MS to retire?

[pRo]

You cant get 7 titles by simply running into your rival cars all the time.

Very true. You can't do it all the time. Only when it matters the most.

[Tp]

I'm sure I wouldn't and I'm sure most of the people who put life and health infront of glory and success would have stopped - not because of something practical but for the piece of their mind. If he had stopped than and say goodbye to chances of winning that race everyone would respect him for that.

I've been watching F1 for nearly 7 years and have never seen that happen, so to say Schumacher is the only one who doesn't do it, is rubbish.

There are many great racers who are practically revered for accomplishments on the track, personal fortitude, and strength of character. names such as Mike Hailwood (what he did on two wheels is still amazing), Sterling Moss, Graham Hill, Ronnie Peterson, Ayrton Senna, and even Gilles Villeneuve have earned a worthy place in the hearts of many fans. Not only did they race great, they conducted themselves with amazing character. Yes, they each had their moments of controversy, but they have earned a very special respect from the fans, and just as impotantly, their peers.

Drivers' are under more pressure to succeed, not only to the team, but to the sponsors and media. If they want to stay in Formula One they have to succeed. Putting this much pressure on anyone, is bound to bring about mistakes by the driver or bound for bad decisions to be made.

What Im trying to get at is that, yes he is a flawed god of racing, but a god nonetheless.

[Ciro Pabón]

... What Im trying to get at is that, yes he is a flawed god of racing, but a god nonetheless.

Please, do not take me too seriously. I don't even want Michael Schumacher to retire (I have a weakness for "complicated souls").

But, after reading Tp's post, somehow I feel this could be a nice farewell for Mr. Schumacher:

Darkness and the Shadow of Light
by James O'Barr

I feel like a statue of an armless angel
Broken; hurt
Flawed at my very core,
Rage jets thru my veins,
A black blood poison
Hot with fury
It rolls off me like smoke,
Like sad music
My soul rises up
From the Red Sky of the West:
A fiery chariot amassed of Iron,
Steel, engine parts
Bones, both human and animal
With a hideous velocity
I scream across the heavens,
Washing the countryside
In a sick sweet death
Like some monstrous plague
Anger boils over me
In a screaming rain
And I want to destroy everything;
If I were a god
Everything would die a slow, horrific death
I look at my arms.
There are spiders in my veins,
They are glossy blue-black:
The color of sin, the color of a waxed Porsche.
The crimson hourgasses on their backs
Shine like Christmas tree decorations
The spiders mate, they f*** in my blood
Discharging a sick dead venom
That dozes up and down my arteries
Eating at the last innocence of my soul
To live, I must release them
With trembling fingers
I pick up a straight razor,
Its rusted serrated edge like
The fringe of a shadow
The razor needs soft flesh
Like a dozen red roses
I give the gift of freedom to the Spiders:
A rush of blood, down my forearm
An alizarin crimson curtain
Rising, like my soul,
To signal the start of the end

Who will be the slave to the spiders,
Now?

[DaveKillens]

I'd like to examine the "win at all cost" philosophy. This is racing, not cricket or soccer, and the consequences are much more severe. You see, younger fans sometimes forget the brutally lethal aspact of this wonderful but cruel sport.
Someone could get killed. I'm not being overly dramatic, but each time a driver climbs into a car he may not get out alive.

For instance the long and complicated start procedure with the installation lap, and the wait for the red lights to go out stems from many years of experience, but especially what happened at Monza in 1978. The field had not properly formed, the back part of the field was stil moving into their positions when the green flag flew. The field immediately bunched up, and cars touched. And the sad result is that Ronnie Peterson was killed.
The rules are there not just to please the anal types, but for very good reason. And if a driver has the idea he can do whatever he wishes, then sometimes bad things could happen. We're very fortunate we haven't seen a fatality in F1 for many years, but it must always be remembered how truly dangerous this sport is, and the consequences for "winning at all cost."

[Carlos]

Ciro---What Next--- Blake?---Rainer Maria Rilke?

[Carlos]

I suggest William Blake:

A DEVINE IMAGE

Cruelty has a human heart
And jealousy a human face;
Terror the human form devine,
And Secrecy the human dress.

The human dress is forged iron,
The human form a fiery forge,
The human face a furnace sealed,
The Human heart it's hungry gorge.

From Songs of Innocence and Songs of Experience

[Carlos]

In reference to the previous posts by manchild, Tp, and DaveKillens:

Search: Mike Hailwood

Wikipedia Entry---"Hailwood earned the admiration of fans and fellow drivers when in the 1973 South African Gran Prix, Hailwood stopped his car on the circuit to pull Clay Regazzoni from his burning car after an accident, an act for which he was awarded the George Medal."

Mike Hailwood was in a good position to score points in that race.

[manchild]

Carlos Ghosn? (my way to welcome you on forum)

Back to topic...

Let’s not forget Graham Hill and Bob Bondurant who rescued Jackie Stewart in Spa from a car that was on top of him dripping fuel from damaged tank using the spanners from a spectator's toolkit...
Arturo Merzario, Guy Edwards and Brett Lunger who managed to save Niki Lauda from a burning car...
James Hunt who took Ronnie Peterson out of flames...
Alan Jones, Alain Prost and Nigel Mansell who were first on spot to try to get Elio de Angelis out of burning car...
Senna who risked his life twice in order to save Érik Comas and Alex Zanardi in Spa...

I'm sure this list is much longer but those were just few I’m aware of.

[FLC]

and in what years exactly did those events occure? when was the last event? All the drivers in F1 today are ruthless and have sold their souls to the devil?! How is schumacher different? Why didnt his brother come for him in the british GP in 1999? Is he considered ruthless?

Those acts are admirable and brave, but like I said before, totaly unnecessary in today's F1. Try to imagine a driver doing something like that today. He would most definitely look like a fool while interfering with professionals work and disturbing the order.

Senna was good enough to risk his life and rescue another driver from his wrecked car, but then sold his soul to the devil so he can run into other drivers cars intentionally? How does that add up? How does it sit with ur intial theory, manchild?

[Carlos]

Their is absolutely no value to ethical expression when the one purpose is success; especially when the necessity of moral considerations are removed by circumstance. Composite materials are superior to sheet aluminum which in itself is stronger than steel tube. Some prefer a moral compass to the advantage of strength. It's just a preference. Just as a discharge device is more effective than a cutting tool which is more effective than a weighted rod. Some would choose a device only when made necessary. It is only a preference. Some consider that culture is made possible by a balanced interpetation of our own interests, those of others and those of the community. It is only a perference. What dictates our preferences? Our own strenghts and abilities and our regard for those around us and for the larger assembly we call humanity. We are all free to make a choice. We allow each other an expression of free will. The individual will choose the moral confines that give him comfort.Choose what you prefer. Everyone does. Micheal Shcumacher has made his choices in the sphere of Formula1. We will make choices in our own lives. Sometimes we will apply the standards that work for us as standards for others. It happens; it's just human nature.

[mini696]

Why didnt his brother come for him in the british GP in 1999?

Its widely known that RS and MS hardly even know each other. Ralf himself has quoted that.

Senna was good enough to risk his life and rescue another driver from his wrecked car, but then sold his soul to the devil so he can run into other drivers cars intentionally? How does that add up?

Senna told the world it was going to happen. He admitted he would do this before the race.

[Mikey_s]

Mini...
so that's all right then.. on that basis as long as MS had said he would take out Hill/Villeneuve prior to doing it would have made everything OK! utter nonsense - cheating to engineer a result is unacceptable, period.

I do not condone those moves by MS, nor Senna, but Hill was a fool in any case - it was clear that Schum was out of the race in Adelaide and he COULD have waited until his car stopped moving. Villeneuve was a victim of a Senna type move - not much he could do about that and it was competely pre-meditated by Schum - I offer no defence at all for that move, it was a disgrace - but he was severely punished for that misdemeanor.

All I would say is that in a game where the title is won (provided you cross the finish line) then as a driver you do what is necessary to win - if that means staying out of harms way, or being hyper-cautious so be it. Alonso did it in Monaco (I think it was Monaco anyhow!) this year when Schum unlapped himself, near enough jumped out the way when Schum came through, why? absolutely nothing to be gained by risking an incident.. sensible driving IMO (and something that characterises a great driver; fight when you have to and defend when you don't).

Just to stick to the thread;

I desperately hope MS sticks around... crikey, if second place in the championship is over the hill what does that mean for the rest of the field... (anyway, who would Manchild gripe about if he went?)

[manchild]

Mini...
so that's all right then.. on that basis as long as MS had said he would take out Hill/Villeneuve prior to doing it would have made everything OK! utter nonsense - cheating to engineer a result is unacceptable, period

I'm not saying that Senna did a good thing but he did in only once and because he was treated unfair by FIA. He had won pole position and despite of that they placed him on the worse side of the grid. Than they changed their minds a bit but went back again to unfair solution.

Remember that it happened in the time when Ferrari had a chance to win a title after 11 years so unfair treatment of pole position winner stinked on what was to come ("F1 needs Ferrari"). Fortunately Senna wasn't obedient like most of modern drivers - he publically protested before the race and when FIA ignored that and placed pole postion winner on the place on the grid that gave Ferrari (Alain Prost) advantage Senna threatened and did what he did.

Schuey however had nothing to be mad about except the worse car he had.

[jaslfc]

WITHOUT MS>> WE WONT HAVE THIS MANY TOPICS ON THE FORUM!!

[DaveKillens]

Welcome Carlos, and an interesting post. I have to agree with it. People are free to follow their own moral compass. (within the confines of the laws)
But I prefer that in sport, it brings out the best of the competitors, and not the worst.