Italian GP 2006

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
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Vasco
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Joined: 21 Apr 2004, 22:05
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

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I am so confused....... how on earth did alonso manage to block massa. Even schu would struggle to block him from that distance... Its so sad what the FIA are doing. Also the report from the steward was signed by the following people:

Tony Scott-Andrews, Enzo Spano and Alessandro Tibiletti

Now are the last two names italian :?:

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joseff
11
Joined: 24 Sep 2002, 11:53

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I can see the arguments leading to a conspiracy theory... why doesn't anyone take a shot at FOM instead of FIA btw? They're the ones benefiting from a fight to the wire. The 2nd half of this year is turning F1 into pro wrestling.

Here's hoping Kimi would win his 1st race though.

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Sawtooth-spike
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Joined: 28 Jan 2005, 15:33
Location: Cambridge

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what a load of ****!. Alonso was infront of massa. if thats blocking then anybody who happens to be on track is blocking?

Come on FIA we want a fair fight for the end of the season, we have earned it! Schumacher has put a up good fight and Alonso has put one up to, i want to see who is the best and who wins this season not who has paid enough money to Burny and Max.

If Schumacher wins this seaon on his own merit then fair play to him. IF he get it cus the FIA screw alonso then i will not be impressed .

PS if i was alosno i would just crash into schmacher, make it a racing incident, clame insanity, they are not making this a fair fight to the end.
Which is all i am asking for!
I believe in the chain of command, Its the chain I use to beat you till you do what i want!!!

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Ciro Pabón
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Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

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I agree: FOM, FIA or whatever needs to explain how two cars that far can have any kind of relation. They seem to have a sickness called in Colombia "testicular otitis": they can hear you, but they pretend they are pr*cks. :)

There have been comments on how Massa, at that distance, benefits from the car in front. Perhaps Alonso was using a force field, Star Trek style. Or, maybe, this was not the lap they were talking about. The only solution, if this is not the case, is to clear the field as soon as anybody else comes out.

I protest routinely about comments based on nationality. I do it again on the comment about italian stewards. Believe me, stupidity has no frontiers. I have two nationalities and I am as imbecile in Spain as I am in Colombia. :wink:

Poor Alonso! :cry: He reminds me of an old saying: "the guy in the front has all the arrows pierced in his back"...

Alonso hardly made it to the starting line in time for another lap and Massa did not. Perhaps this is what the problem is about: might he have tried to stop Massa from doing an extra-lap?

Anyway, Pat talks and the stewards too. I found extra super hyper funny the remark about "indicators"... :lol:

Symonds furious with Alonso penalty

Autosport
By Jonathan Noble Saturday, September 9th 2006, 19:12 GMT

Formula One has become too 'politically correct' and the stewards are making inconsistent judgements, a furious Pat Symonds said this evening following the decision to penalise Fernando Alonso and demote him to 10th place on the grid.

The Spaniard had his three fastest laps of the final session in qualifying removed by the stewards, who said he had impeded Ferrari's Felipe Massa in the session today. As a result, Alonso has been demoted from fifth to 10th.

Yet Renault's director of engineering Symonds firmly believes Alonso did not impede the Brazilian, and in fact helped him gain time by getting a tow from the Renault car.

"I don't understand the penalty, because we don't feel we impeded him," Symonds said. "This is a circuit where we are always trying to get a tow - especially in qualifying. Massa was 100 metres behind Alonso, so he got a nice tow, and I don't see it as a hindrance.

"I looked at Ferrari's telemetry, and [Massa] gained time on the back straight and was quicker into Parabolica than before. He lifted in the middle of the corner. To me, it looked like a mistake but he claimed he was losing downforce."

But Symonds was particularly vocal about the influx of penalties handed out this season for blocking in qualifying, and warned that Formula One is stepping away from its core appeal as a racing series.

"It seems that we have forgotten what qualifying was like up until 2003, when half the field complained of traffic," the Briton said. "We seem to have forgotten what racing is about.

"We are so politically correct now, and I don't know what is coming next. Maybe indicators, to see whether drivers want to go left or right?"

He further criticised the stewards' inconsistency, claiming rivals Ferrari have been getting away unpunished with similar infringements.

"It's difficult to fight like this," he stated, "when you see Ferrari changing direction as many times as they wanted before the first corner in Turkey and nothing happens, and then we get penalised like this."

Symonds also stated that Alonso could well have won from fifth place tomorrow, but the penalty has vastly diminished their chances of victory, at such a crucial stage of the championship.

"We had a genuine winning strategy staring from fifth, and it will be a lot harder from 10th," Symonds said.

"Not only because it is so hard to overtake, but because we are in the middle of the pack and a lot happens there on the first lap."


The full decision by the stewards

By Jonathan Noble Saturday, September 9th 2006, 17:25 GMT

Below is the full decision by the Italian Grand Prix stewards on the matter of Renault driver Fernando Alonso:

A report was received from the race director that stated that the driver of car No. 1, Fernando Alonso, had impeded another driver during qualifying, namely Felipe Massa, car No. 6.

The stewards after hearing the explanation of both the drivers, their team managers, and having seen video evidence and data supplied by Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro, find that:

1. Fernando Alonso was on his out-lap and, having been caught by Felipa Massa, did impede him;

2. To impede another driver during the qualifying practice session is an offence. (Article 116b of the 2006 Formula One Sporting Regulations);

3. Such actions may not have been deliberate.

The stewards determine that a breach of the regulations has occurred during qualifying practice and by virtue of the provisions of the 2006 Formula One Sporting Regulations Article 112 order that the best three laps set by Fernando Alonso in the third period of qualifying be deleted.

Signed by Tony Scott Andrews, Enzo Spano and Alessandro Tibiletti
Ciro

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Lightspeed
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Joined: 09 Apr 2006, 07:52

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Its not about blocking, its about impeding. Period.

allan
allan
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Joined: 14 Jan 2006, 22:14
Location: Waterloo, Canada

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i think we all remember the french qualifying when Schumacher and alonso fought for the first position.... but non of them was penalised because they were both on their flying laps..
while in this case, massa was on his flying lap, when alonso was on his out lap....
but what made it more complicated is that alonso had a small amount of time to get to the start line, and at the same time, he had to let massa pass by..pretty comfusing!!!!
ferrari used that advantage,which i don't think renault wouldn't have used it if it was the other way around,i.e fisichella and schumacher for example..
but i was wondering if this was the lap,or it was the one after it, because massa gained a lot of ground on alonso on that lap, so i wonder how close he was on the lap next to it when alonso was way much more slower than his pace....

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Lightspeed
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Joined: 09 Apr 2006, 07:52

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Pat Symonds wrote:"I looked at Ferrari's telemetry, and [Massa] gained time on the back straight and was quicker into Parabolica than before. He lifted in the middle of the corner. To me, it looked like a mistake but he claimed he was losing downforce."
When did he get acess to Ferrari's telemetry ????

captainmorgan
captainmorgan
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Joined: 03 Feb 2006, 20:02

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Is there any info on trap speeds during the last qualifying laps?

Ignis Fatuus
Ignis Fatuus
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006, 22:54
Location: Czech Republic

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Lightspeed wrote:When did he get acess to Ferrari's telemetry ????
At the hearing I suppose.

RH1300S
RH1300S
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Joined: 06 Jun 2005, 15:29

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Holy crap - I just checked Autosport this morning - well, you all know what I just saw :shock:

Unbelievable.........

I watched qualy; and yes they were running on the same race track - but blocking?

Alonso was going all out to get across the line to start a final balls out effort - made it my about 2 secs. There's no way what he was deliberately blocking Massa.

IF (BIG IF) - Massa's lap was affected - it's just one of those things that WILL happen unless they do one at a time qualifying again.

For penalties they have to look at intent - not just the outcome. Unlikely, I know, but what if it was a Super Aguri in front of Massa - Massa was held up, but the SA managed it's best qualy lap - that would NOT be blocking - merely unfortunate for Massa (or anyone else for that matter - don't want to hang Massa for this one).

FLC
FLC
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Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 14:01

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You cant always look for inent in F1 as you'll never be able to prove it. Drivers get fined thousands of dollars for speeding in the pit lane. Does someone really think they do it on purpose?
Can you prove that when a driver gets a blue flag and he doesnt move aside he does it deliberatley or just didnt notice the car behind him?

Secondly, that was a good point back up: Alonso was punished for impeding not blocking. He doesnt have to zig-zag or slow down in order to do that.

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wazojugs
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006, 18:53
Location: UK

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Its another black day in the 2006 championship.

As a person who has watched this sport since 1990 and has only missed one race (imola 2005), eats and breathes the sport, collects paintings (some signed by mika and DC).

after seing those clips on youtube this really saddens me, the only thing i am now tempted to do is to fax the fia office telling them what i think they have done to ruin this sport

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wazojugs
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006, 18:53
Location: UK

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Lightspeed wrote:Its not about blocking, its about impeding. Period.
Mass was never within reach of alonso, watch the youtube clips and the little moving dot in the distance is alonso, that is not impeding its injustice.

So when every leaves the pitlane in qualy 3 and going around the track burning off fuel is that impeding as they are all posting times

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pRo
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Joined: 29 May 2006, 09:08

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Anyone remember the rules? It's not about possibly maybe perhaps impeding someone. It's about deliberately impeding.
(A. 116b) If, in the opinion of the stewards, a driver deliberately stops on the circuit or impedes another driver in
any way during the qualifying practice session his times will be cancelled.
(Yes, you could argue whether the deliberately only means stopping or also impeding. There have been dozens of cases where a driver has undeliberately impeded another though, so it must mean both, right?)

I'll also quote what The Official Formula 1 Website said:
Massa complained to officials that Alonso had blocked him whilst on his final run at the end of session. The stewards agreed and deleted the Renault star’s three fastest times from Q3, though they did concede that Alonso’s actions may not have been deliberate.

So they are more or less saying that maybe he did, maybe he didn't, but we'll punish him anyway. :evil:
Formula 1, 57, died Thursday, Sept. 13, 2007
Born May 13, 1950, in Silverstone, United Kingdom
Will be held in the hearts of millions forever
Rest In Peace, we will not forget you

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pRo
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Joined: 29 May 2006, 09:08

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manchild wrote:All this s*** got me inspired.
As they say "poet needs the pain" or in my case "manchild needs injustice". :wink:

Image
Could you make that pic avatar sized? :twisted:
Formula 1, 57, died Thursday, Sept. 13, 2007
Born May 13, 1950, in Silverstone, United Kingdom
Will be held in the hearts of millions forever
Rest In Peace, we will not forget you