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This is F1. This is top tier open wheel racing. There's an expectation of driver competence to compete at that level. Grosjean isn't showing it with any regularity on these starts. Doesn't matter how quick you are by yourself, if you can't race that's that. First corner of the first lap? WTF is he doing? Doesn't matter if it's unintentional - if you can't keep it together at this level.. time to sit one out.
It's not like this is the first time, either.
That's how I see it anyway. Just one man's opinion. But if the guy can't get it together.. what else is there to do.
To which I respond where is Maldonado's time to sit in the corner? How about Kobayashi a couple of years ago when he was taking wings off left and right?
I don't care if someone gets penalized or not. I simply want to see some consistency in terms of what is and is not a penalty.
This is F1. This is top tier open wheel racing. There's an expectation of driver competence to compete at that level. Grosjean isn't showing it with any regularity on these starts. Doesn't matter how quick you are by yourself, if you can't race that's that. First corner of the first lap? WTF is he doing? Doesn't matter if it's unintentional - if you can't keep it together at this level.. time to sit one out.
It's not like this is the first time, either.
That's how I see it anyway. Just one man's opinion. But if the guy can't get it together.. what else is there to do.
To which I respond where is Maldonado's time to sit in the corner? How about Kobayashi a couple of years ago when he was taking wings off left and right?
I don't care if someone gets penalized or not. I simply want to see some consistency in terms of what is and is not a penalty.
Lack of consistency sucks, for sure. This is 2012 not a couple years ago so I can't speak to Kobayashi. I haven't caught enough F1 races this season to see Maldonado all over the place, but (and maybe this is luck of the draw) every race I've watched Grosjean has been doing mind boggling stuff.
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.
Jersey Tom wrote:This is F1. This is top tier open wheel racing. There's an expectation of driver competence to compete at that level.
In theory JT, you would be right, however F1 is more a business than competitive field, thereby allowing anyone with enough cash to 'buy' a seat, regardless of experience. F1 stopped being top tier when the lawyers and deal makers arrived.
bhallg2k wrote:Young Grosjean simply made the mistake of taking out a Ferrari, the championship-leading one at that.
+1
If it wasn't so transparent it'll be laughable. Guess we all know now where to look when searching for examples of 'perfect'. Whats that about casting the first stone?
You just can't move across the track like that at the start, yes there will always be cars moving around, but that was a big move. Hamilton was just going in a straight line, as was everyone else pretty much, apart from Gro obviously.
I too was surprised by a ban, but then again, they probably want to stop this behaviour. RoGro has been involved in 7 first-lap incidents during 12 Grand Prix. I'm sure they have taken that into account as well.
I'm also happy to see more penalties being handed out to Maldonado. I hope one day he understands it, as nowadays he just keeps on saying "It's not a disaster, still good performance, I look forward to tomorrow/next race". Either he'll realise it soon, or he'll realise some day in the winter that he's got no races to look forward to anymore.
As might be expected I have a different take on the incident..
Fact is Schuuie never got a cross word for all his chopping...he perfected it..they named it the Schumacher Swerve...So yeah Grosjean came across and Louis had a clear line of sight to see it where the man was coming and what he was doing, and could have backed off and avoided the situation but no, he made it worse by staying on the throttle and pushing Grosjean into the melee.
I place AT LEAST half the blame on Hamilton.
BTW . I have no love for Grosjean.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss
If you actually watch the video from "Louis" onboard Camera, Grosjean pretty much appears out of nowhere.
Lewis deviates to the right till the point where he's just about to go off the track.
He could have slowed but by that time his front left was caught in front of Romains right rear so slowing down would have only caused a tangle anyway.
It didn't matter what he did because even though he did move over, Romain kept on squeezing till their wheels did eventually make contact and that was that.
bhallg2k wrote:Young Grosjean simply made the mistake of taking out a Ferrari, the championship-leading one at that. He won't do that again.
Come on bhall, the guy is dangerous, no matter what cars are involved.
Same penalty given to Irvine more than 20 years ago, do you remember? There was Brundle acting as Alonso...
I don't deny the fact that Grosjean is prone to finding himself in trouble on the first lap. In fact, he's more likely than not (58%) to be in such a situation. However, I think Malfunctionado - consider that nickname stolen, Hail22 - has proven himself to be a much bigger liability in terms of driver safety, and yet he has not received a penalty this stiff despite the fact that several of his incidents were caused by malicious intent rather than (apparent) negligence.
The only difference I see is that Jaws hasn't taken out a Ferrari yet.
Don't get me wrong here; for the most part, I'm fine with Grosjean's ban. I'd just like to see such justice meted out a bit more evenly.
EDIT: I made my thievery a bit more obvious.
Last edited by bhall on 03 Sep 2012, 15:41, edited 1 time in total.
I have seen replay's of the crash and this is my opinion on it;
The start is always crowded, simple as that, 24 cars who try to make it together to the first turn, a very tight first turn it is in this case. Grosjean is simply fighting for positions and tries to get an as optimal position into the corner as possible. With a lot of drivers on the left he simply oversights the one on the right, which was Hamilton in this case. I would even dare to say the possibility that Grosjean couldnt even see him coming. Grosjean simply positions himself on the inside of the corner, a logical place to go.
Then things go wrong, Grosjean gets hit by Hamilton who simply was already there, and from there on nothing can be done. Grosjean then had the luck to get launched by Kobayashi and in turn take a jump over Alonso's car, who was pretty much next to him.
This was imo just a regular start crash, crashes like these happen more often, the only problem here was that he took out Alonso, as a championship leader and almost slit his throat. As always happens F1 suddenly wakes up, and suddenly more than ever do we need head protection, of something that has happened before and something that is such an obvious danger.
Grosjean is simply caught in the shock that was created by almost chopping Alonso's head off and therefore received a race ban. If Grosjean chopping Alonso's head off didnt happen at all Grosjean would have come off with a 5 place grid penalty. Grosjean wasnt punished for the amount of start crahses he made, he was simply the lucky guy who almost chopped someones head off, and therefore received the penalty.
Although understandable, the penalty is way too harsh. You simply are in a crowded area with drivers everywhere around you and then crahses happen. That it happened 7 times to him, so be it, I know a driver who was involved in much more collisions than seven, is well known not to obey flag rules and to have anger management issues, yet he gets off with a grid penalty sometimes. Either he gets punished too light or Grosjean too heavy.
Simple said, Grosjean was just the lucky guy to almost chop someones head off and therefore received his penalty, not because he was involved in 7 start crashes this season.
Im a huge Grosjean fan in this season, i think that this kid will be a champion one day, but i also think that this bann is a right think. He is just not thinking at the start, what might happened and with that reason he is dangerous for other drivers.
funny how lewis 2008 didn't get a ban while driving into kimi in the pit lane. In which case we can clearly see he turned his wheel towards him at the very end.
Grosjean surely made mistake. Yes but usualy for this kind of mistake you get 10 -grid penalty or start from last grid place in race. But this was not ordinary case, Alonso and Ferrari was involved. We know Alonso is leader of champion, and FIA is Ferrari, they need simply move out Grosjean from next race. many constructors and championship points are now with ban of Grosjean on Alonso's and Ferrari hands. This is very good situation for them. But i want some new Petrov take out key points Alonso in Monza, i prefer to be D'Ambrosio. Same men who put up there by Alonso, just for a little bit of irony and see at end of race Alonso's face. =D>
