Grosjean banned. Reasoning?

[wesley123]

funny how lewis 2008 didn't get a ban while driving into kimi in the pit lane. In which case we can clearly see he turned his wheel towards him at the very end.

In what way is this even remotely relevant to Grosjean having 7 start crashes this season?

[elFranZ]

funny how lewis 2008 didn't get a ban while driving into kimi in the pit lane. In which case we can clearly see he turned his wheel towards him at the very end.

when you're about to crash, the first instinctive reaction is turning somewhere. Lewis made a terrible mistake there, but this has nothing to do with what GrosJ is doing in this season. I mean, SEVEN crashes on start...

@Bhall, understood man. Malfunctionado ---> Best Nickname of the Year IMO

[beelsebob]

Possible answer to the reason for banning... Simply that he was driving Hamilton straight into the pit wall, even without the eventual outcome, that's extremely dangerous.

[ben_watkins]

... Malfunctionado ...

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

Best name he could ever be given! Says it all!

Brilliant!

[myurr]

funny how lewis 2008 didn't get a ban while driving into kimi in the pit lane. In which case we can clearly see he turned his wheel towards him at the very end.

To avoid another car. He ran out of room, for all you know he was trying to avoid both cars by turn past them both. It's not like he swerved and then straightened up in order to deliberately run into the back on Raikkonen.

Look guys I know there's a lot of hate for Hamilton on this board but some of these posts are borderline psychotic with the burning desire to find a way to blame Hamilton for something, anything.

Grosjean travelled the entire width of the track and ran another car clear off the track. There was no question of trying to cut across the front of him, it wasn't even close to being a possibility. I really doubt it was malicious on Grosjean's part, but it displayed a massive lack of situational awareness to not know that Hamilton's car was there.

Yeah Maldonado has done worse in the past with his deliberate crashes, and if the stewards were consistent then we would have seen him serving a race ban by now. That doesn't mean that the stewards were wrong to hand the ban down to Grosjean though. It sends the correct message that you have to give other cars space and not run them off the road.

The penalty was harsh but fair in my view. And I hope that if Maldonado doesn't learn that he too ends up serving a similar ban. The FIA have to get tough on him if they want to stop his bone headed approach to racing.

[bhall]

... Malfunctionado ...

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

Best name he could ever be given! Says it all!

Brilliant!

I stole that from Hail22. All credit belongs to him.

[Nando]

Maybe this will be a wake up call for him. We can see the hunger but you have to turn it down.

Alonso nearly died, he took out two championship contenders, took out both Saubers who probably won´t be at the front anymore except for next weekend maybe.

It was like a bomb had went of in La Source. Personally i love Maldonado but i would give him a weekend off as well.

[jdlive]

The consequence of the crash is irrelevant, you can't control any of that.

Everyone should be looking at cause/intent only.

[wesley123]

The consequence of the crash is irrelevant, you can't control any of that.

Everyone should be looking at cause/intent only.

Agreed here.

Although after seeing the crash I cant help but feel he mainly was punished because he almost hit Alonso's head. Everyone suddenly is in a shock about head protection, again, and that is what caused this penalty. If that didn't happen he probably would have got a grid penalty

[Richard]

In most walks of life, someone causing harm through incompetence usually gets a stiffer penalty than someone who could whose incompetence doesn't cause harm. For example, dropping a brick on someone's head will result in different punishments depending on the severity of the injury.

Some have mentioned the Schumi swerve, I think this goes to show that that sort of daring move requires talent to pull it off without mishap, it requires a lot more talent that simply serving.The Schumi swerve was effectively banned after the Schumacher-Barrichello incident in 2010. That got Schumacher a 10 place penalty. I suppose one could argue that a similar move in the much more dangerous environment of the start was reckless, hence a stiffer penalty than 10 places.

Anyway, I suspect Grosjean wan't attempting a Shcumi swerve, I think he misjudged where Hamilton was, or even did not know he was there. this was incompetence rather than a clinically squeezing to win a place. Joe Saward has highlighted precedence for a ban after a first corner pile up ....

Mika Hakkinen, who was not allowed to race in Hungary in 1994, after casing a first corner accident in Hockenheim.

He also highlights other bans for Michael Schumacher, Eddie Irvine, Nigel Mansell, and Felipe Massa

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2012/09/ ... -grosjean/

[clipsy1H]

Grosjean should be happy because he deserved to be suspended several races. This year had plenty of incidents, and I remember now just what happened to Schumacher.

Part of the blame has Bernie who accepts the equalization of powers made ​​by Pirrelli. Too many young people who benefit from powerful cars they do not deserve to be in the front line because they lack experience and are a danger to others.

[morefirejules08]

I have seen replay's of the crash and this is my opinion on it;

The start is always crowded, simple as that, 24 cars who try to make it together to the first turn, a very tight first turn it is in this case. Grosjean is simply fighting for positions and tries to get an as optimal position into the corner as possible. With a lot of drivers on the left he simply oversights the one on the right, which was Hamilton in this case. I would even dare to say the possibility that Grosjean couldnt even see him coming. Grosjean simply positions himself on the inside of the corner, a logical place to go.

Im afraid i have a problem with this part of your statement. have a look at the start from above and you will see that Grojean is not crowded in any way shape or form, he has pretty much the whole track to himself with no cars to the left of him and only one car to his right.
I dont understand why he moved to the right as it was not the racing line while the racing line was clear from his perspective.
What i think Grosjean has done is get a better start than Hamilton then move from left to right to cover Hamilton down the inside but misjudged it and taken out the front of Hamitons car.

Gosjean deserves his ban because quite frankly a 58% first lap incident rate is appalling and not only did he take out 5 cars including himself he very nearly killed another driver!

Now I have been calling for Maldonado to be banned for some time due to the shear number of accidents he has been involved in but what i think the difference between Grosjean and Maldonado is the scale of destruction and danger that Grosjeans lastest accident has caused.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbsQJF0j74o&noredirect=1[/youtube]

[turbof1]

I am summing some reasons up which I think were at the base of the decision to give him that penalty:
-Of course the earlier crashes
-Him being totally unaware were Hamilton was (take in mind that Hamilton actually did the same to Kobayashi last year at the very same track at the raidillon!)
-The severity of the crash: it took out several cars, and it was potentionally life threatening to Alonso.
-The fact Championship contenders were involved.
-Actually, going from the explaination from the FIA, the fact he didn't try to fight it or give some reasons which could even remotely talk into his benefit
-Perhaps a reason that could also play into it was that at the interview before he had to go to the stewards, he denied it was certain that it was his fault. TV images clearly showed he was viewing, before the interview, what happened. You could clearly see he was shocked, indicating he did knew it was his fault. Yet he didn't acknowledged that in front of the camera.

Basicilly a number of those reasons are ground for that penalty. Especially the first, second and last one can be viewed as good reasons for that ban. However, the fourth reason, which the FIA explicitly took upon its statement, is very, very flawed. You are giving penalties because a driver did something wrong; it doesn't or better shouldn't matter if it took out Alonso or Karthikeyan.
Next to that, it is inconsistent: Maldonado can be seen as rash or even rasher then Grosjean. If Grosjean deserved a ban, then Maldonado should get one. Not inmediately for the jump start, but the fact that he ran one time too much into somebody else his car. But hey, that was just a marussia; if Glock ended up with a piece of front wing in his chest it isn't that BAD right??

[wesley123]

I have seen replay's of the crash and this is my opinion on it;

The start is always crowded, simple as that, 24 cars who try to make it together to the first turn, a very tight first turn it is in this case. Grosjean is simply fighting for positions and tries to get an as optimal position into the corner as possible. With a lot of drivers on the left he simply oversights the one on the right, which was Hamilton in this case. I would even dare to say the possibility that Grosjean couldnt even see him coming. Grosjean simply positions himself on the inside of the corner, a logical place to go.

Im afraid i have a problem with this part of your statement. have a look at the start from above and you will see that Grojean is not crowded in any way shape or form, he has pretty much the whole track to himself with no cars to the left of him and only one car to his right.
I dont understand why he moved to the right as it was not the racing line while the racing line was clear from his perspective.
What i think Grosjean has done is get a better start than Hamilton then move from left to right to cover Hamilton down the inside but misjudged it and taken out the front of Hamitons car.

Gosjean deserves his ban because quite frankly a 58% first lap incident rate is appalling and not only did he take out 5 cars including himself he very nearly killed another driver!

Now I have been calling for Maldonado to be banned for some time due to the shear number of accidents he has been involved in but what i think the difference between Grosjean and Maldonado is the scale of destruction and danger that Grosjeans lastest accident has caused.

Thanks for the post and the vid in it. It shows how Grosjean was actually pretty much in the open.

Yes Grosjean was on the racing line and he was in the clear but mostly on the start the inside of the corner is the quicker way to go. I can understand Grosjean going to the inside, however I cannot justify him not seeing Hamilton.

I am not saying the penalty he got was wrong, it was well justified. However the whole inconsequent acting of the FIA annoys me, Maldonado sure beats this 7 times this season and puts everyone on the track at risk on a daily basis, that is what bothers me on this point.

Sure Grosjean made a stupid move here, but this was mainly front paper news due to him almost hitting Alonso in the head. I am confident that he wouldnt get this penalty if that didnt happen.

[Pup]

Gosjean deserves his ban because quite frankly a 58% first lap incident rate is appalling and not only did he take out 5 cars including himself he very nearly killed another driver!

I don't agree with strad at all about Hamilton being in any way responsible, but I don't agree with this argument either.

Drivers don't have a bank account for mistakes against which they can withdraw until they run out of credits. The first incident is no different than the last and should be treated the same. Nor is there some limit on how many cars or which drivers get taken out by a mistake. Even the slightest error can have disastrous consequences, while the most idiotic and intentional move could very well end without incident. The stewards aren't paid to do math, they're paid to enforce rules.

The problem presented by the original post isn't whether this error or that deserves a race ban as much as it is that these kinds of moves have been fostered by inconsistent stewardship. The issue is that this particular move has gone completely unpunished for forever, and then when the inevitable happens, they throw out a race ban.

The guys who should be punished are the stewards who've allowed this kind of racing to go unpunished for decades.