Grosjean banned. Reasoning?

[zyphro]

That crash is reminiscent of Vettel and Webber in Turkey - Vettel moved into Webber, whilst Webber held position.

[RB7ate9]

That crash is reminiscent of Vettel and Webber in Turkey - Vettel moved into Webber, whilst Webber held position.

And, as before, folks are trying to shed some blame onto the driver that was hit.

Lewis, like Webber, had their line first and had every right to stay where they were. If someone else comes in to move them out or make a pass, it is that driver's responsibility to make a safe pass. The driver's making the pass or aggressive move lost track of their surroundings and who they were racing (thinking the other driver would just ALLOW them to yield freely?).

As stated before, this matter is resolved. Grosjean messed up, big. Several other drivers were wiped out and the race ended with the robot (according to SpeedTV) getting the checkered flag (grr). The best thing that will happen is that it will serve as a stern warning to other drivers with histories of battering others. Only been watching since 2009, but this is the first race ban I've ever seen.

On to Monza.

[bhall]

I think starts have just gotten into Young Grosjean's head and made him a bit skittish. You can see in this video from Monaco, where he punted Schumacher into the wall and somehow managed to take himself out in the process, that he's apparently pretty easily rattled. When Alonso moved to the left, Grosjean needlessly flinched and gave him more room, which Alonso then took, which made Grosjean flinch again. That last flinch, however, had disastrous implications for his race and that of several others.

[RB7ate9]

I think starts have just gotten into Young Grosjean's head and made him a bit skittish. You can see in this video from Monaco, where he punted Schumacher into the wall and somehow managed to take himself out in the process, that he's apparently pretty easily rattled. When Alonso moved to the left, Grosjean needlessly flinched and gave him more room, which Alonso then took, which made Grosjean flinch again. That last flinch, however, had disastrous implications for his race and that of several others.

Comparing this and the Spa starts, Grosjean has shown twice now that he will clearly interlock his tires with other cars at the start. This may stem from him keeping his vision forward to avoid making contact with his fronts on the other cars, but then forgetting about the rears as he focuses on his line.

[RB7ate9]

I think starts have just gotten into Young Grosjean's head and made him a bit skittish. You can see in this video from Monaco, where he punted Schumacher into the wall and somehow managed to take himself out in the process, that he's apparently pretty easily rattled. When Alonso moved to the left, Grosjean needlessly flinched and gave him more room, which Alonso then took, which made Grosjean flinch again. That last flinch, however, had disastrous implications for his race and that of several others.

Comparing this and the Spa starts, Grosjean has shown twice now that he will clearly interlock his tires with other cars at the start. This may stem from him keeping his vision forward to avoid making contact with his fronts on the other cars, but then forgetting about the rears as he focuses on his line.

Side-note: After watching Monaco and Spa's starts, Sauber just builds their cars to a whole different standard of tough! And Kobyashi, for all his troubles, ought to get a GP win this year.

[Blue fellow]

I think starts have just gotten into Young Grosjean's head and made him a bit skittish. You can see in this video from Monaco, where he punted Schumacher into the wall and somehow managed to take himself out in the process, that he's apparently pretty easily rattled. When Alonso moved to the left, Grosjean needlessly flinched and gave him more room, which Alonso then took, which made Grosjean flinch again. That last flinch, however, had disastrous implications for his race and that of several others.

Grosjean on-board
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x90zXuS1xKc

Last flinch happened because Alonso tried to go between him and the McLaren, and they touched tyres. I don't think it is fair to blame Grosjean in this incident, he wasn't given a choice.

[RB7ate9]

I think starts have just gotten into Young Grosjean's head and made him a bit skittish. You can see in this video from Monaco, where he punted Schumacher into the wall and somehow managed to take himself out in the process, that he's apparently pretty easily rattled. When Alonso moved to the left, Grosjean needlessly flinched and gave him more room, which Alonso then took, which made Grosjean flinch again. That last flinch, however, had disastrous implications for his race and that of several others.

Grosjean on-board
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x90zXuS1xKc

Last flinch happened because Alonso tried to go between him and the McLaren, and they touched tyres. I don't think it is fair to blame Grosjean in this incident, he wasn't given a choice.

You're right, the initial touch bounced him into Schumacher. I recant statements regarding Monaco.

[Jersey Tom]

This is pretty clear cut and done with folks. No sense in getting your panties in a bunch over it.

It's not just about this ONE incident. It's a summation of start crashes, and this was the last straw for the stewards.

Well i think most of us agree on the penalty itself, but not in the context it was placed.

As in that they did it now, this weekend? At some point you have to draw the line and say enough's enough.

As for him being skittish on starts... do they not have standing starts in other race series? This shouldn't be new. Dude needs to get his act together and settle down.

[bhall]

Grosjean on-board
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x90zXuS1xKc

Last flinch happened because Alonso tried to go between him and the McLaren, and they touched tyres. I don't think it is fair to blame Grosjean in this incident, he wasn't given a choice.

I'm glad you posted the on-board, because I don't necessarily blame Grosjean for what happened at the start in Monaco, or at Spa for that matter, inasmuch as I don't think he's really done anything egregiously wrong, i.e. he didn't really do anything Malfuctionado-esque. But, he didn't really do anything right, either. His reactions are simply not what they need to be at the start of a race.

In both cases, he just needed to hold his initial line, and I can't stress initial enough, and make it through the first corner. In Monaco, he saw a streaking Alonso and flinched to the left, which Alonso readily accepted as a move rather than a flinch. That caused contact when Alonso took it as an invitation for space that wasn't really there. Had Grosjean held his initial line, Alonso would not have moved over, because skilled and experienced drivers like Alonso and Schumacher don't tend put their cars in places where others exist.

Watch him saw at the wheel. Those are big movements with a Monaco-spec steering setup, which you can see in the first video. That his car took the brunt of two contacts is because he'd already unsettled it with his skittish reactions.

[strad]

He was nowhere near past him, he has absolutely no right to shove Lewis onto the grass. You must not be watching the same video because it's clear as day he wasn't past him.

Look at your screen grab...Grosjean clearly has an overlap as it's called and owns the line.
IF Hamilton had hit his brakes after contact he would have slowed quicker than the Lotus instead of being glued to his rear there would have been a gap.
Your hero was slow to react and at least half responsible for the incident. I wish we could get his telemetry.
Cumulative??? Are you kidding.
Each instance has to be judged on it's merits, not something that happened two, three, twenty races ago...Hell even my driving indiscretion come off my record after a time.
I think some of you are looking thru rose colored glasses and others are out to penalize past conduct and not giving this incident a fair review.
But hey we won't ever all see these things all the same and I suppose that's a good thing.......
it's just too bad you're all crazy

[bhall]

[...]
it's just too bad you're all crazy

I resemble that remark.

[turbof1]

He was nowhere near past him, he has absolutely no right to shove Lewis onto the grass. You must not be watching the same video because it's clear as day he wasn't past him.

Look at your screen grab...Grosjean clearly has an overlap as it's called and owns the line.
IF Hamilton had hit his brakes after contact he would have slowed quicker than the Lotus instead of being glued to his rear there would have been a gap.
Your hero was slow to react and at least half responsible for the incident. I wish we could get his telemetry.
Cumulative??? Are you kidding.
Each instance has to be judged on it's merits, not something that happened two, three, twenty races ago...Hell even my driving indiscretion come off my record after a time.
I think some of you are looking thru rose colored glasses and others are out to penalize past conduct and not giving this incident a fair review.
But hey we won't ever all see these things all the same and I suppose that's a good thing.......
it's just too bad you're all crazy

There is one big flaw in your explaination: Lewis never was obliged to brake. Lewis clearly held his line and didn't made any sudden maneuvres. He also gave Grosjean more then enough space. Nothing in this whole story tells lewis should have braked.
To be honest: I do not like your attitude. I respect the fact you have different opinion, but clearly you are not willing to do this for other people their opinions. Everybody can throw with dirt, but that is clearly not the intend of this forum now is it. I am only saying this once, you take it or leave it.

[bhall]

There is one big flaw in your explaination: Lewis never was obliged to brake.
[...]

His race result begs to differ.

For what it's worth, drivers also aren't obliged to brake before a sharp turn. But, doing so is generally a good idea.

[raceman]

A new name for him -- Grosjerk

[beelsebob]

There is one big flaw in your explaination: Lewis never was obliged to brake.
[...]

His race result begs to differ.

For what it's worth, drivers also aren't obliged to brake before a sharp turn. But, doing so is generally a good idea.

The point being that if you don't brake before a sharp turn, you can reasonably expect to hit a tyre barrier pretty hard. However, if you simply hold your line, and drive as close to the edge of the track as you can, while another driver has the entire rest of the track to themselves, you can reasonably expect not to be hit, and not to have to brake.

In hindsight sure, braking would have saved him getting involved in a pile up, and maybe allowed him to complete the race... But he wasn't driving with hindsight, he was driving with foresight, and was in a situation that wouldn't warrant braking to any sane driver.