BBC: F1's Greatest Driver

[Nando]

I´m not sure but i think we got to see the absolute best of both that year. Pace wise.

One is defending his pride, was the current world champion, on top of the world, notices a rookie matches him in everything.
He simply can´t let this young rookie come in and dominate him. It would be completely unacceptable because what does that say about his two recent titles? How valid are those? Was it the car or Alonso?
(just thinking objectively on how he might think, rather then my own opinion)

And for Hamilton, young guy, got absolutely nothing to loose, realizes he can match the 2 time world champion who reigned supreme for the last two years and ended Schumacher´s dominant years at Ferrari.

It must have been a massive pressure for Alonso really. I don´t think he expected to see that but instead thought, ok i´ve got a rookie, everything is fine, i´ll take this title and maybe he can play a support role.

Then in Australia, Hamilton goes around the outside of him like he´s been doing that stuff for years.
I think at that weekend Alonso realized it would not be easy this.

We know he´s not as comfortable with a strong teammate.

[JimClarkFan]

I´m not sure but i think we got to see the absolute best of both that year. Pace wise.

One is defending his pride, was the current world champion, on top of the world, notices a rookie matches him in everything.
He simply can´t let this young rookie come in and dominate him. It would be completely unacceptable because what does that say about his two recent titles? How valid are those? Was it the car or Alonso?
(just thinking objectively on how he might think, rather then my own opinion)

And for Hamilton, young guy, got absolutely nothing to loose, realizes he can match the 2 time world champion who reigned supreme for the last two years and ended Schumacher´s dominant years at Ferrari.

It must have been a massive pressure for Alonso really. I don´t think he expected to see that but instead thought, ok i´ve got a rookie, everything is fine, i´ll take this title and maybe he can play a support role.

Then in Australia, Hamilton goes around the outside of him like he´s been doing that stuff for years.
I think at that weekend Alonso realized it would not be easy this.

We know he´s not as comfortable with a strong teammate.

For sure.

Lewis or Alonso should have won in the WDC in 2007, circumstances conspired against the both of them though. Alonso had fallen out with the management and Lewis, he was pretty much isolated in a team which did not want him, and Lewis was suckered by his team trying to get him to beat Alonso rather than focusing on getting a few points.

Raikonnen was gifted the WDC that year by the squabbles at Macca.

I think Lewis is slightly faster than Alonso Quali wise but I think that gap has narrowed somewhat, Alonso has got fast in my opinion during quali or Lewis has gotten slower...Alonso is a better racer though, and he has gotten better at it.

I think Lewis has slacked of somewhat recently, although he still occasionally shows brilliance i.e. Singapore today. He needs to get his head down, he seems to want fame and money just as much as racing glory these days. In 07 and 08, he was focused on racing, now he has lots of distraction which Alonso simply doesn't seem to have.

[PlatinumZealot]

Lewis only wants to win races, that's all he wants...
All the money and glamor and rappers are just stuff the media highlights for obvious reasons. This year he has been driving brilliant, more like the 2007 Hamilton but faster and more measured. Not a foot wrong this year. Every now and then the Hamilton fan in me wants some Tazmania action but the you got to admire how the Pirellis are stimulating the race strategy part of his brain. He was almost a 100% tactical driver before this so it's very interesting to see him growing in the strategy department. He had two tactical wins this year: Monza and Hungary. He had one strategy win this year: Canada.

[JimClarkFan]

Lewis only wants to win races, that's all he wants...
All the money and glamor and rappers are just stuff the media highlights for obvious reasons. This year he has been driving brilliant, more like the 2007 Hamilton but faster and more measured. Not a foot wrong this year. Every now and then the Hamilton fan in me wants some Tazmania action but the you got to admire how the Pirellis are stimulating the race strategy part of his brain. He was almost a 100% tactical driver before this so it's very interesting to see him growing in the strategy department. He had two tactical wins this year: Monza and Hungary. He had one strategy win this year: Canada.

What obvious reasons?

He has been driving very well this year, I have enjoyed watching him race. The childish behaviour of last year is much rarer now, if he could cut that out for good I think I could become a Hamilton fan once again.

[Nando]

I think all these changes since he came on to the scene, (shitty Pirellis and different kerbs) etc.

All this does is make him better. He was known for using up tires way more then anyone else on the grid, this ment that Bridgestone´s was perfect for him, he could abuse them and not worry about it.

Now with Pirelli´s he has to learn a new aspect of racing and try to master that which i think he showed in Spain, Monza and Hungary.

One stop less then most and in Hungary, sacrificing a full lap only to go 110% in the last corner.
That was a conscious move as well since practice, you have to really set up the car well to hook it up like he did in the last corner.

Seems all this adversity is only going to make him stronger, faster and more hungry.
He´s hit rock bottom already last year, he knows that place and he knows he´s not there anymore.
I think this year we haven´t really seen everything yet.
There´s a big chance he´ll win almost every race after this if he keeps his head down and focus on racing.


Oh and he looks like he´s 22 while he´s 27 something. Crazy how most black people seem to age slower. (visually)
Got two friends at work where one is 35 but looks like he´s 24-25 easily.

[jdlive]

He's proving again this weekend in FP he's the only king. Look where Webber is in the same car. No one is as fast as Vettel.

Okay, so you're asserting that if you have a weekend where you dominated free practice and beat your team mate in all of them, then you're clearly a great driver? Both Alonso and Hamilton have done that, as have many other drivers... Why are they not as high up?

That's even not taking into account the RB8 is not a top 3 car this season.

It certainly is at tracks with 90° corners and lots of traction zones. See Valencia and Monaco.

He's closing the gap to Alonso in not even a top 3 car. He's doing exactly what everyone said he couldn't do or hadn't done yet at this moment (win with a bad car), yet coincidently, no one highlights it.

[RB7ate9]

He's closing the gap to Alonso in not even a top 3 car. He's doing exactly what everyone said he couldn't do or hadn't done yet at this moment (win with a bad car), yet coincidently, no one highlights it.

I do have to give him credit for that. The RB8 was not the best of the field like 2010/11, but considering where RB and Vettel are, it has to be said that Vettel can put his foot down to get results.

[radosav]

He's proving again this weekend in FP he's the only king. Look where Webber is in the same car. No one is as fast as Vettel.

Okay, so you're asserting that if you have a weekend where you dominated free practice and beat your team mate in all of them, then you're clearly a great driver? Both Alonso and Hamilton have done that, as have many other drivers... Why are they not as high up?

That's even not taking into account the RB8 is not a top 3 car this season.

It certainly is at tracks with 90° corners and lots of traction zones. See Valencia and Monaco.

He's closing the gap to Alonso in not even a top 3 car. He's doing exactly what everyone said he couldn't do or hadn't done yet at this moment (win with a bad car), yet coincidently, no one highlights it.

in singapore vettel's rb8 was second fastest car on the track, he dominated whole 3 free practices, that isn't characeristic of a bad car

[beelsebob]

He's closing the gap to Alonso in not even a top 3 car. He's doing exactly what everyone said he couldn't do or hadn't done yet at this moment (win with a bad car), yet coincidently, no one highlights it.

in singapore vettel's rb8 was second fastest car on the track, he dominated whole 3 free practices, that isn't characeristic of a bad car

No, it's the characteristics of a car that's good at traction circuits, but --- at others.

Edit: Fixed quotes.

[radosav]

He's closing the gap to Alonso in not even a top 3 car. He's doing exactly what everyone said he couldn't do or hadn't done yet at this moment (win with a bad car), yet coincidently, no one highlights it.

in singapore vettel's rb8 was second fastest car on the track, he dominated whole 3 free practices, that isn't characeristic of a bad car

No, it's the characteristics of a car that's good at traction circuits, but --- at others.[/quote]
how many wins RB8 has and were they won only by one driver?

[jdlive]

in singapore vettel's rb8 was second fastest car on the track, he dominated whole 3 free practices, that isn't characeristic of a bad car

Where was Webber then if the car is so good? Webber ended the race behind Massa in his supposedly übershitty Ferrari. Let's face it, Vettel is once again dominating and if it weren't for his car breaking down, he would have been the championship leader regardless of the RB being a crap car (compared to Mclaren, probably Lotus, and since races already Ferrari as well) this season.

[beelsebob]

No, it's the characteristics of a car that's good at traction circuits, but --- at others.

how many wins RB8 has and were they won only by one driver?

How many wins has the Ferrari F2012 had, and were they won only by one driver?
How many wins has Lewis Hamilton had in the MP4-27, and is it more than Vettel has had in the RB8? For that matter, how many did Lewis Hamilton have in a vastly inferiour MP4-25 or MP4-26?

[Nando]

in singapore vettel's rb8 was second fastest car on the track, he dominated whole 3 free practices, that isn't characeristic of a bad car

Where was Webber then if the car is so good? Webber ended the race behind Massa in his supposedly übershitty Ferrari. Let's face it, Vettel is once again dominating and if it weren't for his car breaking down, he would have been the championship leader regardless of the RB being a crap car (compared to Mclaren, probably Lotus, and since races already Ferrari as well) this season.

Webber was on point for a possible podium.

Chose the wrong strategy. The car is great on high mechanical grip-tracks.

Remember Monaco? Where was Vettel? Qualified 10th on pure pace.

Sometimes one gets it right, the other don´t. Nothing to see.
1 tenth separates them in terms of total qualifying pace (plus or minus) against each other.

That´s 14 Qualifying sessions.

[RB7ate9]

In terms of RELATIVE PACE, the RB8 does not have the same engineered superiority that was evident in 2010 (it wasn't a matter of if a Red Bull would be first, but who would be driving it), and the ridiculous season that was 2011. The RB8, much like the Mcl and Ferrari, have been brought low by mechanical issues, gremlins, and development woes.

As the season stands:

5 victories for Mclaren (2 Button, 3 Hamilton)
4 Victories for Red Bull (2 Webber, 2 Vettel)
3 Victories for Ferrari (All Scuderia Alonso)

This season saw Vettel and Webber both have good results from the car. It says a lot to the RB8 that it can be driven well by both their drivers with relative parity.

As for F1's greatest driver, I would've gone with Jim Clark based on his 1967 Italian Grand Prix drive alone.

[jdlive]

Senna is always going to end up on the number 1 spot on any of those lists, simply because he...

I'm not saying he should be lower than spot 2 necessarily, but if by now MSC had died on track as well, he would have been the undisputed nr 1 on any list. But such is the emotional nature of most people I guess.

It is in a way funny because it reflects their opposite nature as well: Senna being emotional and spiritual, Schumacher the rational one.