Vettel-Ferrari 2014 discussion

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A plausible theory?

Yes, I could totally see this happening
40
48%
Not a chance
43
52%
 
Total votes: 83

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raymondu999
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Vettel-Ferrari 2014 discussion

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Mods, I realize there is the Silly Season thread, but I'd like to focus some more serious discussion on this topic alone, so I implore you to let this thread remain separate.

I read a piece by Will Buxton recently, saying that apparently, most people in the paddock are sure the Vettel-Ferrari linkup for 2014 is going to happen, and says that it's the exact same type of thing Fernando Alonso was meant to have - an 18-month pre-contractual agreement (Alonso signed in mid-2009, for a drive starting in 2011). I myself seem to remember Alonso admitting as such - that he was slated for a 2011 transfer, but was brought forward to replace Kimi.

I know a lot of people are saying Alonso will never allow another serial winner as a teammate, let alone a multiple champion, and I completely agreed. After some thought, however - along with some coaxing from a friend - I'm not so sure any more.

But maybe Alonso has no veto power over this decision - ie it's a decision made high enough in the food chain that Alonso has no authority to overrule it. Or of course he has no veto power over teammate selection anyways. Montezemolo seems to rate Vettel quite a bit - so I'm definitely not discounting the possibility. After all, he did praise Vettel just some 3 weeks ago, in relation to Ferrari, and with Perez now off the books, at least for the very near future - it has just fanned the flames.

Ferrari hasn't generally had a habit of pairing two good drivers together - that generally comes with McLaren rather than Ferrari - but since Domenicali, they haven't exactly paired a numpty with a demon racer either. While I realise Massa now falls into the numpty category, I think when they initially signed him back on for 2010 - they were intending to put Alonso alongside the 2009 Massa, who in my view was putting in decent drives in a less-than-decent car. I don't think that when they put Alonso on the board for 2010, they were intending to pair him to a numpty Massa - they were intending to pair him with good Massa.

Alonso is not old by any means - there are certainly others (such as Webber, de la Rosa, Schumacher, and as early as last year, Ruby Botticelli) but in modern day F1 he is no spring chicken either. He's putting in some absolutely demon drives this year (and last year too, though the lesser machinery has somewhat subdued the impact last year) but at some point his powers will wane with age, and not long after that he will definitely retire.

The last time they hired a German driver, things didn't turn out too bad. When Schumacher was at Ferrari, he was already very close to Vettel - and many people considered Vettel a Schumacher protege. In fact before Vettel had any F1 linkup (through BMW, before Toro Rosso) he was often in the Ferrari garage with Schumacher, leading to speculation that he might be one day groomed to be the new Ferrari lead.

My aforementioned friend brought forth an idea, which I personally thought was pretty logical, which I shall now present to you. In the paddock, the general consensus is that the Hamlonsotel trinity are the best drivers on the grid. Amongst the 3, Vettel is the youngest. In fact it's still possible that we get a situation where today's top drivers - bar Hamilton, who is only two years younger, and Vettel - have retired, leaving a potential gap in the talent field where the new top drivers are still getting on their feet, while the old guard have gone (in a similar fashion to the Schumi era - Alonso/Hamilton/Vettel weren't there yet, but Senna/Mansell/Piquet/Prost was waning).

I wonder - and my friend does to - whether Ferrari is seeing this "talent gap" emerge and are planning ahead by getting Vettel for 2014, and then aligning their big guns behind Vettel, in an attempt to use those years to replicate the Schumacher era.

Now - keep in mind that this was something I and my friend were talking of over a coffee! It's not the most thorough think-through by any means! :lol:

The obvious question is - why not just do that for Alonso, or Hamilton? To answer, in this "talent gap" my friend is proposing - Alonso would probably be retired already, or beyond his prime. As for Hamilton… I don't know. lol.

It is often said "there is no smoke without fire" - and I certainly think this is the case here. After all, why else would they let a driver that McLaren felt was top-drive-ready slip as a potential Massa replacement?

Thoughts?
Last edited by raymondu999 on 30 Sep 2012, 16:12, edited 1 time in total.
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jdlive
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Re: Vettel-Ferrari 2014 discussion

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He's a more talented copy of Schumacher so yes, a new domination era is planned with Sebastian as the lead driver.
"There is a credit card with the Ferrari logo, issued by Santander, which gives the scuderia a % of purchases made with the card...

I would guess that such a serious amount of money would allow them to ignore the constant complains of a car that was nowhere near as bad as their #1 driver tried to sell throughout the season.

Heck, a car on which Massa finishes in the podium or has to lift so that his teammate finishes ahead (As we saw often in the final races of the year) is, by no means, a "bad" car."

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Vanja #66
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Re: Vettel-Ferrari 2014 discussion

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jdlive wrote:He's a more talented copy of Schumacher so yes, a new domination era is planned with Sebastian as the lead driver.
At first I thought it is going to be that way, but after some other indications, I'm not so sure anymore.

To explain myself... Alonso is at this moment the heart and soul of Ferrari. He soak up all of the Tifosi energy, he is making everyone at the team give it their all and beyond (save Massa, unfortunately), look at what they did from Bahrain to Spain! He is carefully building his position in the team, spends "more time in Maranello in one week than Kimi did in those 3 years", Santander has extended it's partnership with Scuderia until the end of 2017, and Nando himself said that he is expecting to want to continue with the team at least another year after his contract (lasts until the end of 2016.). One could easily assume that means no Vettel involved. However, after so many stories going on, and a couple of Italian newspaper stating that Vettel has signed that pre-contract, it's quite obvious there is some smoke. Take into account that a driver such as Perez is being given a ride in McLaren, despite being FDA driver, the puzzle is shaping up. This is why all of the drivers connected to Scuderia to replace Massa were being mentioned in a single year adventure. To me, that says they got Vettel. Also, don't forget the big Boss Bernie saying at the beginning of 2011. that he would love to see those two at Ferrari, and the man is capable of making his wishes true.

So if Vettel is coming, what can we expect? For Alonso to leave the team once more? Not a chance, he wants to change that fact and say at the end of his career that he had a worthy team-mate and didn't run away. Can we expect to see them collaborating on and off the track for teams sake? Hardly, they are both egomaniacs, true Champions. We'll probably see the Prost/Senna scenario... But, what if... Alonso pushes Vettel out of the team? He will probably be WDC this year, could be next-year's also, team will favor him slightly, Tifosi especially and he (at the moment) states that he wants to finish his career with Ferrari. It's pretty hard for me to see them staying together for more than 2 years, and that period doesn't even last till the end of Alonso's current contract. Save for Vettel kicking Alonso's @$$, I can't see Alonso backing up, so, unless they (or Ferrari board) find a way to work together, I am seeing Vettel leaving Ferrari after two-years time. Just a thought...

Of course, there is nothing more I would like to see than the two of them being bwest fwiendz and Alonso staying there at least till November 2016, then Vettel taking the relay till his career end...
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Re: Vettel-Ferrari 2014 discussion

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I can´t see any other top driver other then Kubica next to Alonso.
If Kubica is fit for fight, he´ll get the spot after pressure from Alonso.
If his career is really over then maybe Vettel is "allowed" in.
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Vanja #66
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Re: Vettel-Ferrari 2014 discussion

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Nando wrote:I can´t see any other top driver other then Kubica next to Alonso.
If Kubica is fit for fight, he´ll get the spot after pressure from Alonso.
If his career is really over then maybe Vettel is "allowed" in.
Robert's surgeon is very pesimistic for Kubica's chances of return... If there was no rally Andore, today we would have seen those two in Scuderia. However, things aren't looking too good for Kubi, and a lot of people are thinking we won't see him at all, or we'll see him low in the grid. Talent means a lot, but when reflexes aren't good (which is something his doctor mentioned), pure talent and speed can't be seen... I'm very sad because of him, I was waiting for him since Canada 2008...
Last edited by Vanja #66 on 30 Sep 2012, 16:44, edited 1 time in total.
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jdlive
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Re: Vettel-Ferrari 2014 discussion

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Ferrari know what they are doing, Alonso has been there for 3y now and has done basically nothing, he is no Schumacher-Senna-Vettel, no domination-material. Would Ferrari go for Vettel if he was? Of course not.
"There is a credit card with the Ferrari logo, issued by Santander, which gives the scuderia a % of purchases made with the card...

I would guess that such a serious amount of money would allow them to ignore the constant complains of a car that was nowhere near as bad as their #1 driver tried to sell throughout the season.

Heck, a car on which Massa finishes in the podium or has to lift so that his teammate finishes ahead (As we saw often in the final races of the year) is, by no means, a "bad" car."

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Vanja #66
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Re: Vettel-Ferrari 2014 discussion

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jdlive wrote:Ferrari know what they are doing, Alonso has been there for 3y now and has done basically nothing, he is no Schumacher-Senna-Vettel, no domination-material. Would Ferrari go for Vettel if he was? Of course not.
Sure, F10 and 150 Italia were championship material... :lol: Ferrari owes Alonso 2010. title, it's their (and Montezemolo admitted it), not his, fault that he lost it. He isn't domination material, but he is the most complete driver of today and would probably take the title next to anyone else in the same car. It wouldn't be a title like last-years Vettel's or some of Schumi's (which are actually bad for the sport), but it would be a title.
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raymondu999
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Re: Vettel-Ferrari 2014 discussion

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Guys - let's keep this conversation more Vettel-centric and keep any and all bashing away, thank you very much.
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Nando
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Re: Vettel-Ferrari 2014 discussion

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jdlive wrote:Ferrari know what they are doing, Alonso has been there for 3y now and has done basically nothing, he is no Schumacher-Senna-Vettel, no domination-material. Would Ferrari go for Vettel if he was? Of course not.
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Steven
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Re: Vettel-Ferrari 2014 discussion

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The only way this topic is going to remain open is when you guys refrain yourselves from bashing on other drivers.
A single post was removed, please behave...

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NathanOlder
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Re: Vettel-Ferrari 2014 discussion

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jdlive wrote:Ferrari know what they are doing, Alonso has been there for 3y now and has done basically nothing, he is no Schumacher-Senna-Vettel, no domination-material. Would Ferrari go for Vettel if he was? Of course not.

Equal machinery, Alonso will destroy Vettel. (Im a Hamilton fan, so its not like I like Alonso)
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Re: Vettel-Ferrari 2014 discussion

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Not sure if you missed the above post but i suggest reading it.
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Richard
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Re: Vettel-Ferrari 2014 discussion

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My thought on hearing of the Button-Perez pairing was that it didn't seem high enough profile for them. Then I thought it might be a transition stage preparing for a higher profile driver. Perhaps Vettel?

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raymondu999
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Re: Vettel-Ferrari 2014 discussion

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richard_leeds wrote:My thought on hearing of the Button-Perez pairing was that it didn't seem high enough profile for them. Then I thought it might be a transition stage preparing for a higher profile driver. Perhaps Vettel?
Are you basically taking my (and my friend's!) theory and turning it on its head by substituting Ferrari for McLaren? :lol:

I can see where you're coming from though. McLaren have a history of taking two swashbucklers, so to speak. Being a McLaren fan I'd absolutely love that.
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JimClarkFan
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Re: Vettel-Ferrari 2014 discussion

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jdlive wrote:Ferrari know what they are doing, Alonso has been there for 3y now and has done basically nothing, he is no Schumacher-Senna-Vettel, no domination-material. Would Ferrari go for Vettel if he was? Of course not.
I think you seriously overestimate the ability of 1 person, namely the driver to create an era of domination. Without the best car, which requires having the best technical staff, there is no domination despite how good the driver is. Alonso is top notch, he is the current best driver in the paddock, he doesn't however have the best technical team, that goes to Red Bull or Mclaren. It's difficult to have one without the other and I can't imagine that changing any time soon.

Wrt to the topic, I can't see Vettel at Ferrari with Alonso any time soon actually. That performance clause will come into effect unless Ferrari seriously up their game.


richard_leeds wrote:My thought on hearing of the Button-Perez pairing was that it didn't seem high enough profile for them. Then I thought it might be a transition stage preparing for a higher profile driver. Perhaps Vettel?
I honestly think this is more likely at this moment in time. Ferrari have a lot of ground to make up. I can see Ferrari going for a Force India driver. And button making way for Vettel in the future. That to me is more likely.