Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Mika1 wrote:McLaren failed to exploit the full potential of the car, not Lewis Hamilton.
Interestingly, you got almost the exact same difference in points scored as I did counting up races where he lost time/got put out for some reason not his fault.
Nando wrote:the problem haven´t been Mclaren´s drivers but rather Mclaren themselves.
They have shot themselves in the foot so many times this year it´s not even funny.
Red Bull on the other hand, if they get a quick car for the weekend they will take home the points.
Red Bull is unquestionable a MUCH better TEAM then Mclaren.
+1
The speed of Ayrton Senna.
The mind of Alain Prost.
The dedication of Michael Schumacher.
The determination of Alex Zanardi.
Nando wrote:the problem haven´t been Mclaren´s drivers but rather Mclaren themselves.
They have shot themselves in the foot so many times this year it´s not even funny.
Red Bull on the other hand, if they get a quick car for the weekend they will take home the points.
Red Bull is unquestionable a MUCH better TEAM then Mclaren.
+1
For a team that bangs on its all bout the championships, they need to start winning some. Because at the moment i don't think they know how. since 2007 (excluding 2009 although it was a mclaren f##k up) they have had a shot every year and every year you can look back and pick out points where the team have cost there drivers. And people question why Hamilton moved.
In fact you could go through the last 10 years and find there are times where you could argue they have the quickest car but still fluffed it.
beelsebob wrote:Vettel has a better car than Hamilton now
I think this race was more a fluke on Mclaren´s side rather then RBR having found a big chunk of pace.
I beg to differ. Most technical observers seem to agree that Red Bull found 0.5 s with the DDRS blown beam wing and diffusor. That is serious time and it is open to speculation how fast Ferrari and McLaren can copy that system.
the double DRS certainly helped in qually , hence the margin
but it doesn't explain the speed in the race ,for the obvious reason that it hardly got used
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be
In Vettel's case I think he even said he actually never got to use the DRS, so that's obviously not the source of his race pace in any way shape or form - unless the DDRS also activates above a set speed.
could his pace also be made up of the fact others that were in traffic so possibly had to back off slightly to look after there tyres? we heard hulkenburg tell the team he was doing just that. Which would make Vettels pace faster as he didn't have that problem
lebesset wrote:but it doesn't explain the speed in the race ,for the obvious reason that it hardly got used
Sure it does – it allows RedBull to have less of a compromised setup – they get to run a higher downforce setup (which is great for race pace as you're not hitting the same top speeds anyway), and not have the penalty for it.
Last edited by beelsebob on 08 Oct 2012, 18:26, edited 1 time in total.
astracrazy wrote:could his pace also be made up of the fact others that were in traffic so possibly had to back off slightly to look after there tyres? we heard hulkenburg tell the team he was doing just that. Which would make Vettels pace faster as he didn't have that problem
Massa and Kobayashi had very clean air though, and at one point, Jenson Button (when he was catching up Kobayashi in the 2nd and last stints). Lewis had clean air too, but yeah
Once folks are attributing speed to a single component.
Good car speed also comes from excellent handling and ideal aerodynamic and mechanical balance. Its not just DDRS.
They also have anew nose cone on the car that reduces the volume of air going under the car. They have probably found better balance from that.
Earlier in the year when the car was more understeery and Webber was able to exploit it better. Now that it is much more neutral Sebastian is able to drag more from it. He has more confidence in the car and therefore caries more speed into corners.
More speed s more downforce. More downforce is higher corner exit speed and that translates into a better lap.
I think at this moment, the momentum is definitely with Vettel. In my view, since the end of the summer break Vettel has been absolutely on fire, getting the maximum out of his car every race - with the exception of Monza, with the penalty.
IMO since the summer break he's driven incredibly well, much like Alonso has all year.
The championship is still open. The resent developments just prove that things can change very quickly without anyone being able to predict it. Alonsos comfortable lead is now gone, but on the other hand, the Ferrari seemed pretty competitive at Suzuka, considering that Massa was able to take 2nd place.
McLaren clearly hasn't solved their reliability issues, as Button again was robbed of the oportunity to finish on the podium due to a problem with the gear box. McLaren have been fast in many of the last races, but if their cars keep breaking down, they won't be able to win the championship. And even if they do resolve their reliability problems and regain their position as the fastest team, it might be too much for Hamilton. Red Bull have been fast in the last two races, but it is too soon to conclude that they will continue to be fast. And they have also struggled with reliability, not too long ago, but they seem to be capable of taking this.
When looking at the previous 5 races it might give us some idea of what to expect from the next 5 races, although all the contenders have been affect by DNFs. Vettel has taken 80 points, despite his DNF at Monza, where he looked like he could take another 10 points. Alonso has taken only 40 points, as the last 5 races has been the worst 5-race period for him so far this year (with 2 DNFs), comming just after 3 strong races during the middle of the season where he tok two victories and a second place. Hamilton has taken 60 points during the last 5 races and that is actually his strongest 5-race period this year, despite two retirements. Based on the recent results, I would say that Vettel is clear favourite of winning the championship. 80 points in 5 races will give Vettel a total of 270 points. I would say that this is way out of Hamiltons reach. He would have to take 4 victories and a second place in order to reach 270 points. His best ever 5-race period came in his first season 5 years ago, when he took 2 victories and 3 second places (equivalent to 104 points). Actually he has never been close to the consistency he showed during his 9 first ever grands prix, where he took 2 victories, 4 second places and 3 third places (which is equivalent to 167 points). Since that he has always been inconsistent, maybe except from this year. But this year his team and car has been inconsistent instead.
